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Bolimar

Decidueye Moderators
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About Bolimar

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    Beginner Battle Trainer
  • Birthday 03/20/2002

Battle Pokémon

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    Lucario

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  1. Bolimar

    Decidueye 8YR safejump guide

    Howdy my little owlets, Bokibar here with another Decidueye guide. This time, I'm covering the super mega oki that is the 8YR safejump, so let's get right into it! WHAT IS THE 8YR SAFE JUMP? The safe jump is when you time a 8YR5RY on your opponent's wake up. It's that simple, and it's just a 4 button input. It's nothing too hard, and there are plenty of knockdowns you can get it off of easily, without a need for manual timing. Well, it's more like one knockdown, but it's ss X, which you get off of pretty much any touch. You can do it off of almost all other knockdowns too, but it requires much more precise timing compared to ss X. Basically, whenever you get an ss X knockdown, buffer an 8YR5RY and voila, you've done the safe jump! Here is an example from tonosama showing off the safejump: WHAT'S SO GOOD ABOUT THE SAFEJUMP? Well for one, it's an extremely safe, plus, and rewarding oki that you can use with very little setup. It is +12 on block, on hit it's plus enough for you to confirm the hit and go for a big 200+ damage combo, and it is safe on all but the fastest CAs. As you can see in the video, it is even safe on u-turn! Now, Decidueye isn't exactly lacking in okis like this, he has Magnemite and 4[X], but what this oki has over those two is that it isn't reactable. I say this in the sense that from 8YR, you can do a 50/50 between the safe jump and held acrobatics, and all characters have a very hard time reacting to either option. If you are a true battle-hardened Decidueye main, you should know that any 50/50 involving acrobatics is a very scary one due to the high reward on acrobatics anywhere close to the wall. The combination of the option to do acrobatics and the sheer safety of the safejump itself makes this setup a very scary one. WEAKNESSES OF THE SAFEJUMP Now, I can say that this safejump is a super godlike safe on just about everything oki that you have almost no reason not to do, and I'd actually be totally right. This doesn't mean it doesn't have a few shortcomings, though. The biggest weakness is definitely the fact that the safe jump outright loses to all i11 CAs, and so does acrobatics. This means that it's outright unviable against lucario and pikachu. Tough break, but it's still mad good against everyone else. Just don't do it on those two characters unless you are adding cross ups to the mix. The safejump is still safe on i11 options that are invuln to it, like Umbreon and Garchomp 8Y, so only espeed and quick attack invalidate the mixup. The 2nd biggest weakness is that all 8Ys are invulnerable to the safejump. Now, this may sound bad at first, especially given the fact that 8Ys will beat acrobatics too, but bear with me to the last section where I will cover that. It's still safe on 8Ys, it just doesn't hit them. (PLEASE NOTE: These two weaknesses are only the case for doing the safejump out of an ss X knockdown. If you are a super god at timing meaties with this, other knockdowns that give you more time will not have these weaknesses. This means that yes, super meaty safe jump IS safe on espeed.) An unrelated weakness I have to cover is that some characters have an easier time reacting to acrobatics than others, due to character height and the fact that the acrobatics starts fairly high up. Taller characters just can't react to it at all consistently, but some characters have more time. It's still a hard feat for everyone, but there are definitely characters that can react to it consistently with keen focus and practice. Here's a list of those characters: Suicune Braixen Chandelure Pikachu Croagunk Gengar Pikachu Libre Some of these guys have a harder time than others, but these are the characters that I am able to react to acrobatics with. Obviously whether or not you can react to something like this is extremely subjective, and depending on the player there may be more or less characters, but I do think my reactions are pretty honed. Just be wary about using acrobatics against these guys in the list, because I know for sure they can react to it if they are really on the ball about it. The last weakness I have to say about the safejump is that you cannot confirm hitting it right away. This means that if you hit something like u-turn, you may pick up on that after the fact and get hit before you can block in time. This isn't too bad though, and I will tell you exactly why in this last section! Oh yeah, you can also parry it. Maybe don't use the safejump against aegislash, too. APPLYING PRESSURE WITH THE SAFEJUMP So, in order to utilize this most effectively we have to account for 2 things: 1. that you cannot confirm your hits immediately and 2. that 8Ys are invulnerable to it if you do the safejump off of an ss X knockdown. What you do about all of this depends a whole lot on your opponent's armored reversals, and their 8Ys. If either one is decently fast, then in order to stay safe on everything you have to put up your block for a little bit, at least for enough time in order to block their quickest options. A good strat is to quickly tap the block button after the safe jump, and go from there after confirming what you hit. This keeps it plus on block and confirmable on hit and slower CAs, but also keeps it safe on their quick reversals and 8Ys. Once you condition the opponent to stop doing them, you can then abuse the safe jump in it's full glory, following it up with tight block pressure that combo on hit with 5Y, 5XX, rising jY, or whatever really (it's +12 on block, so 5Y will catch jump). If they are a persistent bugger with their reversals, you can also do harder punishes, like your own CA for example. It takes practice to apply the safejump well, but believe me, you get a whole lot out of it. If you happen to hit a normal CA with the safe jump, You can jump, 8Y, or grab it on reaction depending on the CA. The only exception to this I can think of is sceptile, who you kind of need to hold block against. Remember, you can mix the safejump with acrobatics, and normal CAs get absolutely destroyed by that too. CONCLUSION Very few characters have access to an oki as scary as Decidueye's 8YR safejump setup. While many other characters have super safe, plus, and rewarding okis much like Decidueye's, none of them can mix theirs with an extremely powerful grab like you can with the 8YR safejump, leaving little to no room to react. Learning to use this setup will definitely improve your Decidueye play quite a lot, and you can watch my tournament footage if you want more examples of how to use it. This is more than just a quirky little gimmick that's not worth much more than a viral twitter video, it's a very powerful tool that I believe every Decidueye player should learn how to use.
  2. Hey guys, Bolimar here with another early combo guide. The listed combos are midscreen by default, and only involve the wall if specified. For every starter I list the optimal midscreen combo, and also an easy midscreen combo if the optimal is too hard. I might be updating the midscreen wall combos later, but I do list examples for big damage combos so you can get a feel for what you are supposed to do for later wall splats. For the instantly splatting wall combos, I list the most damaging ones that shift, and also 2 oki options depending on what you want. Shell oki allows you to withdraw and still have a big frame advantage, while bubble oki gives you enough space and advantage to do some really good bubble setups. The bubble oki ones also tend to do the most damage without wall splat damage. Anyway, I will definitely be using Blastoise a lot, so you can expect me to update this more than my Aegislash guide! 6X 6X 5A6R Y 2Y 4Y 8XX - 248 6X 5A6RY 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y8A - 249 6X 6X 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y 8A - 245, do this on far away hit 6X 6X 4Y 8XX - 242, easier followup to far away 6X 6X 2Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 8A - 233, do this if you hit them low in the air 6X 2Y 4Y 4Y 8XX - 228, easier followup to low 6X Midscreen wall combo example - 6X 5A6RY 2Y 4Y 8X W! 5Y8[A] - 282 +30 Wall combo - 6X 8[A] 5Y 8A - 272 +30 6X W! 8[A] 5YY - 266, shell oki. Do 2Y for less psp 8Y 8Y 5A6RY 2Y 4Y 8XX - 195 8Y 6ARY 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y8A - 156, this is the most damage you can do on Pikachu Libre, Pikachu, Garchomp, Chandelure, Croagunk, Gengar, and Weavile 8Y 6ARY 4Y 8XX - 145, easier follow vs those characters Low air hit - 8Y 5A6R 2Y 4Y 8XX - 188 Medium air hit - 8Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 8XX - 177 High air hit - 8Y6RX 2Y 4Y 8XX - 170 Example of midscreen wall combo - 8Y 5A6RY 2Y 4Y 2Y 5YW!8[A] - 227 +30 Wall combo - 8YW8[A] 2Y - 220, shell oki 8YW!4RY 8[A] - 234, bubble oki 8YW!6RY 5YY8A - 217 +30 5Y 5YY 5A6R X - 158, just do 5YY6RX if you want less psp Example of midscreen wall combo - 5YY5A6RX W! 5Y8[A] - 238 +30 Wall combo - 5YYW!8[A] 2Y - 242, shell oki 4YYW!4RY 8[A] - 249, bubble oki 5YYW!6RY 5YY8A - 241 +30 5X 5X6RY 6X 2Y 8A - 183 5X4A - 160, do this if you hit them in the air or at a distance Not point blank or in the air - 5X8[A] - 165 Example of midscreen wall combo - 5X6RY 6X 2Y 5YW!8[A] - 218 +30 Wall combo - 5X 8[A] 2Y - 208, shell oki 5XW!6RY 5YY8A - 204 +30 5XW!4RY 8[A] - 223, bubble oki jA jA 6X 8[A] - 178 Off a dinky point blank air hit - jA grab - 124 Wall combo jA 6X W! 5Y8[A] - 211 +30 jY - followup is pretty much distance dependant. If you hit them too far away for 6Y keep zoning! jY 2X - 144, easy confirm jY 5X 4A - 200, point blank-ish jY 5YY 5A6RX - 198 jY 8Y 5A6RY 2Y 5Y8A - 222 jY 6Y - 110, easier confirm jY 6X 5A6RY 2Y 5Y8A - 259 Wall combos are just the bubble oki versions for all starters, and shell oki versions if they don’t have bubble oki versions Crit 4Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y8A - 261 4Y 5YY5A6RY 2Y 5Y8A - 249 Example of midscreen wall combo - 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y W! 5Y 8[A] - 283 +30 4Y 5YY5A6RY 2Y 5YW!8[A] - 276 +30 Wall combo - 4Y W! 8[A] 2Y - 259, shell oki 4Y W! 8Y 5YY8A - 245 +30 4A 4A 2Y 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y8A - 245 4A 2Y 4Y 4Y 8XX - 242 Wall combo - 4A 2Y 4Y W! 5Y8[A] - 263 +30 2A 2A 6X 6X 2Y 5Y 8A - 183 2A 6X 6X 5Y 8A - 177 Wall combos On far away hit - 2A 5AW!6RY 5YY8A - 208 +30 2A 5AW!5RY 8[A] - 227, bubble oki Close hit - 2A W! 8[A] 5Y8A - 239, shell oki 2A W! release A Y 5YY8A - 207 +30 2A W! Release A Y 8[A] - 224, bubble oki [CA] Wall combo - [CA] W! 5Y 8[A] - 241, shell oki [CA] W! 8Y 5YY8A - 205 +30, shift, don’t do this Crit 6A 6ARY 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 5Y8A - 171 6ARY 4Y 4Y 8XX - 167 Example of midscreen wall combo - 6ARY 4Y 2Y 4Y 2Y 5YW!8[A] - 279 +30
  3. Slippingbug has recently released a moment on twitter going over a whole lot of tech in particularly the chandelure matchup. It's very helpful to those who need help in the matchup, so check it out!
  4. What’s goin on Pokkén community, literal irl Decidueye here with my attempt at a conclusive and definitive guide to continue pushing the meta for this character. Please note that you probably need some prior knowledge of Pokkén to understand parts of this guide, not that you need to be an expert or anything. Now buckle up, and prepare yourself for the knowledge I am soon to unload before your eyes! WHAT IS THIS “DECIDUEYE” I SPEAK OF? Decidueye is of course a character in Pokkén Tournament, but he also happens to be a pokemon, and me. You see that green hoodie guy right there on the character select screen? That’s Bolimar. They made me a Pokemon. And me, I mean business. This is serious stuff you’re getting into with this character, I just thought I’d make myself clear. If you can't handle the heat, step into the bubble bath. We owls are big boys who order the 4 piece chicken tendies at chick fil a. No babies allowed. PROS, CONS, AND VIABILITY Decidueye is pretty darn absolutely heckin insane. He’s not exactly the best character, but wow wee does he have some busted aspects to him. If you want an actual opinion on his relative goodness, I’d say he’s top 5 or top 8, an amazing character hands down. He’s not as crazy as people may say, though. He has what is probably the safest, most threatening, and easiest to get pressure in the game. He jabs your block once in neutral and whoop dee doo, you’re in a vacuum of a lot of super skewed in his favor guessies where he gets 200+ damage and more stupid pressure if he happens to guess right. He’s also got crazy close quarters buttons, ridiculous whiff punishes, unparalleled movement, and a super versatile moveset that allows him to be pretty good at everything else. All of these aforementioned things allow him to play his own game to an extent, have a mad good neutral, and have an even better offense if he can edge out even a small advantage. His weaknesses consist of low damage if you don’t want to guess against the opponent and just play conservatively, and a generally unthreatening mid range in duel if the opponent knows what they are doing. Both of these are pretty much mitigated by mix up heavy play and patient play respectively. He is also generally really inconsistent with how good certain stuff is depending on matchup, but if you just learn your matchups this isn’t really a problem as he doesn’t really lack detrimental options in a particular matchup. PLAYSTYLE While I do think you can play Decidueye in very many ways and that he is very open ended, I do think that your playstyle will gravitate towards a few key strengths and weaknesses. You get your damage with your pressure, and you get your pressure either by hitting them, or hitting their block with a select few close quarters buttons. However, in a neutral situation, both of these things can prove to be difficult for Decidueye without throwing him at the opponent with a disadvantageous or slow advancing move. You have a plethora of options to go about doing this patiently, or you actually can do just that - throw yourself at them with a disadvantage a bunch of times until it actually works. You can play bait and punish, hit n run, or yolo/calculated/reactive rushdown, all of them are methods to get your pressure either with a hit, or forcing a close quarters battle. SOAR STANCE GENERAL OVERVIEW I would go over the moveset at this point, but first I need to go over one key mechanic: soar stance. In neutral it’s jank as heck and only like 3 options are usable with it in either phase, but in pressure it’s pretty much the pinnacle of Decidueye’s entire moveset. Like half of his moves involve soar stance to a great effect, so I feel it’s important to go over it first. You got 6 moves out of it Y and YY - In field it’s a long ranged projectile, while in duel it’s an i17 swipe that’s plus on block or a combo starter depending on whether your Y or YY respectively. Both of these variations have the same mechanic in that if you Y or YY for the first time in soar stance, you stay in soar stance, which ends up making both very useful overall as you can use it in conjunction with other moves. It is worth noting that Y can be cancelled into X with a very big window, which is useful for checking with Y to combo into X in field phase and general combos and CA checking in duel. In duel, it’s +4 on block as I said, so against characters that aren’t too tall you are basically in the same mixup you are with regular plus on block cancels, save for a few mostly irrelevant differences due to not being as plus as the other ones. The second use of Y or YY forces you in a freefall that you can use normal jumping moves in. X - A ridiculously fast, ridiculously disjointed, and ridiculously rewarding body slam that is just a broken move all together when not considering block, which it is unsafe on. These properties are what makes it a fantastic reactive whiff punish and yolo option, and pretty much the reason that you even do soar stance in neutral most of the time. Adversely, it is also the reason the opponent needs to respect your soar stance in neutral. Use this as a punish for any commitment at all while you are in soar stance, and maybe a yolo option if you need a big advantage fast. A - Known as acrobatics, this is definitely one of the most important moves in Decidueye’s moveset, and defines his entire playstyle in my opinion. If you ask me, it’s within the top 10 moves in the game, maybe even top 5. It’s important that I bring this up, because it is one of Decidueye’s worst moves in almost all situations that aren’t in soar stance pressure. Seriously, don’t use this at all in neutral unless you are on the 8934750308th level of yomi or something. When in pressure though, this punishes an opponent that doesn’t want to press buttons hard, and is exactly what makes his pressure so scary, where everything else is made broken because they punish the button pressing that it so heavily encourages. You can tap the button to throw them backwards with high base damage and 3 psp, while you can hold the button to throw them forwards with low scaling and 0 psp. Both of these have combos off of them if the opponent hits a wall. Even in situations where the back throw does more damage, though, it is preferred that you use the forward throw because it is 4 frames faster, making it much harder to react to. The damage you get at the wall is incredibly high, easily establishing it as the most powerful grab in the game without boosts to base damage, even more powerful than gengar burst attack if it is not % boosted by buffs or crits. 4R - Probably the least useful ss move altogether, but still important nonetheless. It has invuln on startup which is exactly why you would use it both in neutral and in pressure. If you are high enough, you can use jumping windows at a certain point after it, but normal ground to air cancels aren’t high enough. “High” cancels, which I will go into soon, allow you to l cancel it by pressing a button right before you hit the ground to negate most of the landing lag, greatly increasing it’s viability mid pressure. Used in pressure to dodge stuff you can’t dodge otherwise, which will be covered in the pressure section. 5R - A quick cancel out of soar stance that puts you into a fast descent to the ground. It has low lag all around, with only 9 frames of wait before you are allowed to use normal jumping move, and low lag if done empty. The empty lag is further decreased with the aforementioned l cancel, which can be done regardless of height. Used to quickly switch into your normal jumping state to use jumping moves regardless of if it’s in pressure or in neutral, and also to quickly get back to the ground if you are far away from the opponent and go into soar stance. 6R - a far and fast flip forwards, or to the side if you use the side variant in field phase. Much like the oher R moves, it can be cancelled into jumping moves at some point in the move, the window of which being pretty quick but not as fast as 5R. You use this move for the insane movement option that is the flip, either for the burst movement in neutral or to go over the opponent’s head in pressure. There is a sort of scaling to how much lag you experience with either empty land depending on how high you are, if you do it super high up you go into a recoil that spans an eternity, but if you do it super low you experience almost no lag. Cancelling into jumping moves pretty much makes this mechanic irrelevant. If you use jumping moves when you use this out of a ground to air cancel, you actually experience less lag with them than you would normally, which makes the even better in pressure. I will go into it’s application in pressure more in depth in a pressure section. Also, for the sake of easy reference, I will also go over jumping moves in both phases here. Field phase jY - It has a big hitbox, is a projectile (meaning it’s better on CA), and is plus on block, making it a good move to cover landings but not great when used offensively because it is slow and outclassed. Use this to attempt to make your landing safe in conjunction with your other landing options. Field phase jX - ridiculous divekick, also used to cover landings and is your primary jumping move in pressure (which will be covered later). Can be angled, jFX goes fast and can go the entire distance of some smaller stages, making it a great anti zoning option even without soar stance. It is also very disjointed, allowing it to hit a gengar hiding behind shadow ball and the like. Use this over soar stance as a higher commitment, more rewarding on block and such option on reaction or prediction to jumpable moves. jA (Sucker Punch) - the use is the same in both phases, your anti-anti air that functions in it’s job regardless of where it is used unlike Decidueye’s other anti-anti air options. Beats attempts to anti air you with both immense style and effectiveness, though it is terribly unsafe if they don’t try to anti air you. Also, SUCKER PUNCH Duel phase jY - This move is absolutely insane, the best move in the game without a shadow of a doubt. A small section detailing some of the aspects of the move just doesn’t do it justice, it will get it’s own capital letters section. Though, it’s use out of soar stance is to cover your unsoar moves with a powerful, + on block and low lag hitbox which will be detailed to greater effect in the pressure section. APPLICATION OF SOAR STANCE I do suppose I have a little bit more explaining to do when it comes to soar stance, don’t I? I haven’t even covered how to enter the stance! Well, there are 3 primary methods in which you enter the stance, and they are: Pressing R in the air (in conjunction with a d pad input in the direction you want to move before entering) Pressing R after landing a jY in duel phase Pressing R after landing certain grounded moves (or simply using razor leaf, as it automatically puts you in soar stance) The first 2 have the same mechanics, and are what I believe to be the standard form of soar stance. Everything I have said about moves so far carry over to this stance, save for that part about the lag reduction on 6R stuff, which is a mechanic from the 3rd one. The R press is used primarily in neutral, or to use soar stance moves without using any attacks. The jY cancel will be covered in my section for the move. Ground to air cancels are used mainly for pressure. I will start with neutral. In neutral - While you have very many options with soar stance in neutral, you will find yourself using only a select few things by default. In field phase, it is used mainly for Y and X, with the unsoar moves having significant lag on landing, invalidating aggressive use of them. You use the stance in anticipation to them doing something it will dodge, like a shadow mewtwo sY, a lucario aura sphere, or really anything of the jumpable sort. Then, if they did in fact press a button, you can drop down with an X easy peasy, but if they don’t then you have a few options. The first one being Y, as it is a mostly safe way to oppress them with the option to combo into X if you confirm it. If that doesn’t work or you think it won’t work, then you need to find a way to get to the ground again safely, which is what your other moves are for. You can wait for however long you need, maybe Y to reset the timer before you get back on the ground, and when the time is right you can: nR sucker punch, nR jY, nR jX, s/fR variations of these options, empty nR, timed bR to dodge something then jX, or yolo X. You have a lot of options to cover your landing in case you predict wrongly, which is a big part of what makes this stance pretty good in neutral. It is undeniable that you have the disadvantage here, but the main thing here is that you don’t get outright punished unlike many other jumping options. Oh yah, if you happen to be on the 8934750308th level of yomi you can acrobatics to jank an unprepared/unlucky opponent. In duel phase, the application is very similar, but it is generally a lot safer and can be used a lot more aggressively thanks to Y/YY. You can utilize it in the same way you would in field, go way high up on prediction to them doing something and then X if they actually do, and cover your landing if they don’t, but you can also j6R super low to the ground and start some pressure with Y/6R from there if they aren’t ready with an attack of their own. Your options to get out of a tight spot are greatly improved, with access to a significantly better jY in your normal jumping state and lack of jX tracking allowing you to divekick far away from the opponent with 6R > j6X. All of this along with improved landing lag on empty unsoar moves allows you to use it much more safely. Although, there are much less things you get to punish with it in this phase that people would actually use, and there are generally better ways to start pressure offensively, so you actually end up using this less. BASIC SS PRESSURE This section will go over basic pressure stuff, things obviously get deeper but I feel with how easy it is to get pressure it is important to go over it. Anyway, there are 2 things that set one ground to air cancel apart from another: advantage on block/hit, and height. Advantage on block/hit is self explanatory, while height affects matchup dependent hitbox stuff, the amount of time it takes for you to get to the ground with unsoar moves, and even your access to certain options entirely. The most notable of said options are the 4R l cancel and 5R jY being only possible with the high cancel, and Y ~ Y being lagless with low cancels. For the most part, all of these factors only matter in certain matchups, but I’m gonna tell you about them here anyway. The advantage is hit/block 5YR - +16/+6 low cancel 5YYR - +16/+10 low cancel 5YYYR - +16/+10 low cancel 2YYR - +12?/0 high cancel 6/fAR - +12/-2 high cancel 6/fAA - +12/+8 low cancel 5XXR - launcer/+6 high cancel 8YR - +12/+6 high cancel Homing 1 > R - +16/+6 low cancel Please note that: ssY is an i19 mid high, ssX is an i15 mid high that goes into a low hitbox very quickly, ssA and ss[A] are i27 and i23 respectively, 5R sucker punch gets it’s invuln by frame 17, and 5R jY is effectively an i19 mid high in theory (this hasn’t been confirmed but it’s definitely true based on other data). Yes, there are only 2 moves that involve ss in field phase, as listed. As you can see, everything but 2YYR and 6AR are about +8, which means they are all about the same advantage, save for in a few matchups that will be covered later. Now, there is a ton of depth here for you to take your pressure to new heights and apply MU based optimizations that even I haven’t even reached, you can experiment on your own time and maybe hit me up on discord to discuss it, but basic the mixup is pretty simple if you want the dummy version. First off, look at whatever matchup section I end up putting in this guide. Is there an exception listed? If so, change your pressure accordingly, and if not, follow these essential rules. Crossover (6R/fR) - in most matchups, this is what you default to in pressure. The move itself dodges almost all buffered moves, and in conjunction with height based stuff and cancels out of it there is literally only one move that can reliably punish it, that move being drill peck. In order to punish it, the opponent needs to delay their attacks and use the correct move depending on what they think you will actually do out of it. Catch-all options that beat out no cancel, jX, and jY out of crossover even when delayed are very few and far between thanks to the quick and large hitbox jY provides, the lack of no cancel suffers, and the drastic hurtbox shift behind jX. This kind of difficulty there is to punishing the move alone makes the move good, but things get better from there. If the opponent blocks or CAs jY, you are at a serious advantage do to how little lag it has, the double hit version being +12 on block. The same goes for jX, though it is worse on CA (it will sometimes cross up CA, though.) This allows you to extend your pressure with crossover, while being incredibly evasive at the same time. Not to mention, you get a full combo off of both. These threatening aspects of jY and jX out of crossover also makes no cancel effectively plus despite actually being super minus by technicality. The weaknesses of this move include the following: there is an obvious window where the opponent gets to act between the attack you go into cross over out of and the time you get to attack. This allows to opponent to simply move out of the effective range of the cross over and be at the advantage. jX can somewhat cover this, but lower commitment movement options can result in this not only not hitting, but also being reactable with a CA punish. Depending on height and matchup, there are also a few things that beat everything you can do out of cross up, which I will go over later. Lastly, despite extending pressure against a blocking opponent, it doesn’t exactly punish blocking! 2 of 3 of these weaknesses are covered by options he already has universal access to, while the match up specific one will be covered later. To cover the large window weakness - do a safe, quicker attack. Most commonly, that safer attack is duel YY, though homing 2 and leaf blade also work when you have access to them. This will prevent escape options and delayed buttons that you don’t want to cross up. As a bonus, much like cross up it will beat buffered attacks in general (though in the case of YY, that loses to anti airs.) The combination of this safe and quick attack and your crossover options make for a very powerful core to hard punish buttons and in general anything that isn’t the block button, while allowing you to extend your advantage and pressure for pretty much as long as you can get the good guesses in. However, there comes a time when a patient player will just keep on blocking, unwilling to press buttons, and you just can’t break the defense with just your buttons and safe ss options. That is when you acrobatics. Frequent acrobatics makes for a double edged sword. On one hand, for every acrobatics you land, you chip away around half of your opponent’s health bar, more than half in the case of shadow mewtwo. On the other hand, it’s the one thing in Decidueye’s pressure that can be legitimately hard punished, with anything the opponent wants. Be smart with your acrobatics, and use your plethora of safe pressure extenders to condition them into getting hit by it. Or don’t and just guess, the damage you get is so ridiculous it’s worth the risk of a full punish sometimes. Yep! So in duel phase, in most matchups you default to cross over, and depending on how you think your opponent will respond to it branch out to YY or acrobatics. After you land a cross over jY or jX on block, simply use the plus frames however you see fit, usually to do even more soar stance mixups. In order to understand exactly what you want to do with these plus frames on the ground, it’s important that you understand what the moves you have there actually do, so I won’t go into that right now. In field, it’s a lot of the same, but Y is much worse and cross over is slower and lacks duel jY. Empty crossover in conjunction with crossover jX still do the same job, but not as well. Luckily, with the moves you actually have access to the mixup other than fAA, you do have access to safe, quick attacks to replace Y, like homing 2 for homing 1 and the Y followup for fA. There is one more notable soar stance mixup in the mixup you force with fury attack, but I will cover that when I go over the move itself. FIELD PHASE MOVESET Spirit Shackle (nA) - An all-rounder projectile with many strengths and few weaknesses to it’s name. It rewards a hit with a shift, travels fast, recovers quickly, and has high durability, altogether making this a very good projectile to go for for both aggressive zoning and defensive counter zoning alike. It even has a fog on startup that deletes all the projectiles whimsicott does, allowing you to parry most projectile in the game. This property makes it useful for more than just a projectile, it can also be a good reversal depending on the move! It’s main weaknesses consist of slower startup and lack of tracking, the latter of which can be helped against sideways moving moves like most sYs and jYs by timing your shot near the end of their movement. Spirit Gun (n[A]) - Decidueye focuses energy into his bow to turn it into a violent and scary gun. It shoots 3 projectiles aside from 1 which helps tracking, each of which set a trap, but the lesser range and significantly slower startup makes this a niche pick in neutral. Fury Attack (fA) - A frame 13 move that is most effectively used as a close quarters button due to it’s speed and relative safety compared to other quick moves up close. If you hit this you will always shift, though it is preferred that you do Y for the damage and advantage on shift. On block, what you do after is effectively a mixup between hold block and CA against characters with punishes to fAR > cross over (which I will go over later) and simply always fARing against characters who don’t. Against those that do, you want to do mostly fAY or fAA to force a situation where you cannot get punished reliably, or if you think they will attempt to CA those do fAR anyway to either acrobatics them, cross over, or backdash if the CA is too quick for both. More info on this mixup in the character specific section. Frenzy Plant bA - A frame 13 counter attack with a very good hitbox, which makes it both a good reversal and a decent yolo throw out a broken hitbox option. However, it is very risky because of the vast amount of recovery, so for CA purposes you usually want to do the normal CA. It is better than normal CA in situations where you really do need an i13 counter, such as to punish garchomp homing on block and to tech common attack/grab 50/50s when you are +4. nY - A good mid range poke and Decidueye’s only real form of projectile tracking. It has very small range, but works very well at that range. Because of how little end lag this move has, it is one of the safest pokes you have. This can be used to cancel into spirit shackle at a distance to use it’s tracking to kind of mitigate the no tracking weakness spirit shackle has, and up close you can use it as a check into fury attack. Due to how little lag this move has, it is Decidueye’s most effective way to build meter. The durability is also very good against some characters, affording Decidueye a very low committal projectile wall he can put up for free and cancel out of if the opponent lacks good durability. sY - Similarly to nY, this is a low commital mid range poke that doesn’t reach past mid range in distance. Can be cancelled into fY, so you can combo this into a phase shift if you can confirm well. The sidestep you do with it is very useful, but it does not negate tracking. bY - A move with very many good niche uses, but overall not as strong as other moves. This is Decidueye’s best anti air up close thanks to it’s big vertical hitbox, a good move to throw out to stuff homing attacks and the like thanks to being 0 on block and very active, and useful for eating all sorts of projectiles almost for free if you can manage to get it out in time to beat them. fY - Simple yet strong, this is Decidueye’s primary full screen punish when used on reaction. Very risky if used in anticipation for something, but it is good in that aspect too because of just how quick and far it goes in a short amount of time. Especially good as a yolo option against characters lacking big frame 9 moves, because they can’t punish it. Release Y - similar to spirit shackle, this is an all rounder projectile that is good in many ways, save for the lack of tracking. It is more damaging and faster on startup than spirit shackle, but has worse durability, lacks the parry, and is a charge move. It is also easier to jump due to it’s height property, but this hardly comes up. Release X - it extends debuffs in exchange for meter. Why would you use this? Release A - Very good move to use when shifting from duel to field, and it’s something the opponent has to respect. You can do a lot of stuff on block with it which I encourage you to look into yourself, and the hitlag it applies on hit and CA comes in handy for combos, slowing them down, and making certain stuff safe. Even if you don’t follow it for pressure it forces something out of the opponent which you can take advantage from at a distance. If they side dash, you can go for fY to punish. The durability is useful for approaching if you follow behind it. It’s not very good in neutral because of the immense amount of lag it takes to put it out. Homing 1 - The best homing attack in the game, this is i17 with a huge, true mid AA hitbox, making it one of the easiest to hit much like the mewtwo homings. What sets this move apart from those however, is the fact that you can follow this up with ssX to go into duel phase with a really good knockdown. On block, this even creates a + on block ss mixup! What you do with it is very similar to regular mixups I went over in duel phase, but here you homing 2 instead of ss Y. You don’t have to mix up every time, doing nothing can be just as effective! jY - As I said in the SS guide, this move is great for covering landings and little else. It can be used as an oppressive mid range poke in neutral if done instantly, but even then it’s not amazing. It’s a big yet slow and unrewarding projectile move that is + on block. jX - Again, as I said in the SS guide, this move is a pretty godlike divekick that you can angle with the d pad. Use this in neutral to punish commitments on the ground quickly and effectively. Not much I can say here that I haven’t said in the context of soar stance, but it’s just as good as a punish in neutral thanks to it’s massive range and speed when angled forward. jA (Sucker Punch) - SUCKER PUNCH FIELD PHASE PLAYSTYLE Decidueye can play this phase both very passively and very aggressively depending on what the situation calls for. For passive play, you can utilize your high movement speed to walk around at long range to dodge low commitment options the opponent throws at you while peppering them with low commitment options of your own like spirit shackle, release Y, sY, and nY, forcing them to take more risks to pin you down. At this point, you can utilize your great full screen punishes such as jFX, spirit shackle, release Y, and soar stance up > X on reaction to punish reckless attempts to hit you. If your opponent prefers to continue to play more patiently, keep on fishing for stray hits at a distance. If they decide to safely approach you to force a mixup, try to use your superior close quarters options to win the exchange. As for when you need to go on offense, his fast homing allows him to get into mid/close range pretty much for free, where he can force his good buttons on the opponent. DUEL PHASE MOVESET 2Y - a quick, low committal poke that is known for it’s nearly nonexistent recovery. This move is best used in close quarters when you want to throw something out for additional pressure, but don’t want to be at risk in doing so. Thanks to it’s very small hitlag, this move is a very good tick setup and is scary for the opponent regardless of if they block it. It is comparable to lucario 2Y, literally having it’s exact frame data. 2YY - much more rewarding than 2Y, yet also much more committal. Despite this, it is still very safe, even on CA where you are able to cancel into specials to beat the CA. I consider this to be an entirely different move from 2Y in practice because it’s use is totally different. You use this as a more confident frame 11 poke for it’s greater reward, although it is not nearly as good as a check or low hitstop tick due to it’s greater commitment. The soar stance mixup isn’t nearly as useful as the other ones since it is 0, but it can take the opponent by surprise if used sparingly. 5Y - A very useful poke, even by jab standards. It has good range, outclassing all of Decidueye’s other weak attacks in the distance that it covers. It is a true blockstring into 5YY, making confirms easy and safe be they on hit or on block. Doing so loses to CA more often than not, however. It’s reward is good for a jab, allowing for big damage and a knockdown or potential wall followup with the 5YYRX combo. 5YYY is only useful for tacking on a little bit extra damage for extra psp and as a mixup in pressure due to not being a true blockstring out of 5YY. 5YR has a niche over 5YYR for it’s low commitment making it safe on CA along with it’s low hitlag making it harder to react to, but 5YYR is generally much easier to confirm and better on block. 4Y - A slow move with subpar reward that makes up for it with it’s huge disjoint and being plus on block. You use this as a poke at mid range, but your results may vary due to how slow it is. At least, it’s one of Decidueye’s only mid range moves he can throw out without having to throw himself at the opponent at a disadvantage, so it has a niche. It does have competition with 8X in this, which I will go over soon. It is also decent oki when you lack proper setups because it is very safe even on most CAs at max range. 8Y - While this move is slow and has little reward on a grounded hit, it is a very good button due to being kinda godlike in every other aspect. Like almost every other 8Y, this move is invulnerable to mid highs and highs by the 5th frame, allowing it to invalidate most of some characters’ movesets before it even hits, and have a defensive presence against everyone else as an anti air or callout. On top of this, it gives you a very good mixup on block in soar stance, and is your go to move to start high soar cancel pressure. Last but definitely not least, it is a true mid, which means that if the opponent isn’t hitting you before the move comes out or is just in full invulnerability, they cannot avoid getting hit by this move when in it’s vicinity. All of these powerful traits allow it to be a great move to throw out in some matchups and a godlike move to use when plus in every matchup. It does have issues with vertically large CAs, but it can be cancelled into ss 4R quickly which can be l cancelled afterwards. It is comparable to Suicune 8Y for reference, but it is slower and less rewarding in exchange for being advantageous on block. On crit and air hit, you get a pretty big combo off of this. 8X - Although this move is one of the laggiest in Decidueye’s moveset and even the game, it does serve a niche for it’s fantastic disjointed, true mid, projectile hitbox. It is comparable to 4Y in this respect. It is much worse in the frame data and reward on hit department, but it is significantly better on CA and jumping approaches due to being a projectile and a true mid respectively. It also makes a name for itself for the backstep Decidueye does before he uses it, making it his only retreating move. Generally, 8X is better at stuffing approaches, and 4Y is more oppressive. Both are used sparingly due to being slow, but they are his only low commitment mid ranged pokes when given the chance to throw them out so to speak. This is also your most powerful frame 1 grab crush, at least against stuff like sand tomb and electroweb 6X - A huge move that can be used as a mid ranged poke, whiff punish, and approaching tool. It can even be used as a low crush, but it is finicky in that respect since you only get the invuln by frame 9. You can use it very oppressively thanks to it’s multiple hits allowing for a large number of mixups, but thankfully for the opponent none of them are too much in Decidueye’s favor. The primary mixup you go for is the 6XXX/6XX grab 50/50, but you can also just do 6X to take the -4 for less of a commitment. If you manage to land the 3rd hit of 6XXX, it is easily your most powerful starter, which means it’s very scary for the opponent to press buttons after 6XX despite it being -8 for you. The mid low invuln is also very good, though 6XXX can be cadc > ca punished so watch out! If the 6XXX is blocked entirely, you are +4, which is very good for Decidueye as you will soon find out. This is overall a great button at both mid range and close quarters, but it is slow on startup and unsafe on anti airs. 2X - This move is quick and powerful, but due to being inferior to jab in almost every way it doesn’t really have much of a use in neutral. It is a good move to use against bursted opponents, being your only kinda safe frame 15 strong attack. It sets up for a bunch of great oki setups for less psp than jab so it has that going for it. All in all, it’s your best combo starter at the wall and has one or two special niches, but it is unfortunately a good move outclassed by a great move. 4X - Don’t use this dummy 4[X] - It’s a dedicated oki tool which I will go over in oki. 5XX - Your most powerful grounded combo starter when not at the wall. It has an alright hitbox, ducks highs, and goes into an advantageous high soar cancel mixup on block. All of these make it a serviceable neutral tool when considering it’s great reward but it is a little bit lackluster when compared to your other buttons. It is undeniably a great frame 19 punish outside of that, which is what makes it a great move by default. 6A (Fury Attack) - A frame 15, pseudo-safe mid high with a lot of range and reward. Although it has an annoyingly massive amount of special properties and gimmicks to it’s name, that’s the best way to describe it. In close quarters you use this when you need a quick button with a lot of range that destroys jump, for the most part. At mid range, you use it when you need a quick button with a lot of range to punish a whiff, for the most part. If you hit them on the ground do the Y followup, and if you hit them in the air do a juggle combo. On block, the mixup is very similar to the mixup in field - if they cannot punish 6AR reliably just 6AR and go from there, and if they can then you 6AA or 6AY if you think they will not CA or 6AR and punish the CA if you think they will. On the ground this is a decent alternative followup as opposed to going for damage and knockdown if you want the +8 that the Y followup provides. 5A (Spirit Shackle) - Much like in field phase, this is a low commitment, slow on startup projectile that has decent reward and can be used as a parry to other projectiles, except now you don’t have to deal with that pesky tracking problem. The application is similar in that you use this as your go to projectile to pressure them at a distance and counter their own zoning, but despite being objectively better you will use it less thanks to the inherently better options and frame data that duel phase provides. The charged version is a bit better here than in field, because when spaced right you can more consistently string the arrow into the trap on block for a frame advantage and chip, which gives it better applications offensively. 4A (Frenzy Plant) - This move is significantly more useful in this phase due to there being more moves that are actually safe on your normal CA and more frame tight situations where it’s speed is useful. It is still very risky though, so take caution when using it as a reversal. 8A (Smack Down) - This is a very, very niche move in neutral but it does give Decidueye a little bit more utility. The insane vertical and horizontal reach of both the arrow and the magnemite allows you to snipe a select few things out of the air, most notably Weavile’s icicle crash. If you can manage to get it off in neutral without letting your opponent gain too much distance on you, you can almost always do something to extend pressure with it. It’s pretty alright to break the mold in a long range standoff kind of situation because of that, but I don’t really like it for even that since it’s so slow. In burst mode, it’s pretty great for forcing chip and pinning the opponent down thanks to dropping 3 magnemites, but spamming it isn’t the most worthwhile use of burst. jX - It’s a very good divekick, although it’s not nearly as insane as it is in field. You are usually plus or zero on block regardless of the height you hit it, which makes it good to use as a surprise attack in the air even when it’s not guaranteed to hit, on top of normal divekick things. jA (Sucker Punch) - SUCKER PUNCH Release Y - Much like Spirit Shackle, it is a great projectile that retains it’s all-rounder nature from field, save for that pesky tracking problem. Yet again, it is very comparable to Spirit Shackle, being faster and more powerful in exchange for durability and the parry. Use this as your other go to projectile when you would prefer the speed over the advantages of Spirit Shackle. Release X - This is a bit more useful in duel thanks to lowering the opponent’s psp count on top for increasing the debuff timer. This lets you get in more mixups in duel with more wiggle room in terms of psp, thus making your damage potential for guessing correctly much higher. This is obviously in exchange for meter, so abuse this at your own risk. Release A - Funnily enough you get to use this in neutral more than you can in field due to there being less full screen punishes to it, and you can also do some really scary setups with it, but the risk/reward is almost never in your favor even still due to it’s ridiculously slow startup. Still, feel free to experiment with opportunities to set it up and stuff you can do with it out, It is definitely underexplored and has at least a bit of potential. I do not find it beneficial to Decidueye’s game as the meta stands right now. THE MOST POWERFUL ATTACK In this section I will go over Decidueye’s jY in it’s entirety, because there is both a whole lot to cover and a very good reason to cover all of it. jY is easily Decidueye’s best move, and arguably the best move in the game against more than half of the roster. When used immediately out of a jump, the move is effectively frame 13 (yah, faster than frame 15s) with plenty of room to spare to screw up the input before it stops being jab speed. It’s large hitbox allows you to use it at most heights and still hit the opponent, making it hard to react with an anti air even in it’s descent. Thanks to the 2nd hit, you will usually be + on block regardless of where it hits in your descent. It can be cancelled with the R button to go into soar stance either immediately after the first hit, immediately after the second hit, or at any time afterwards. This allows for followups on hit and mixups/safety on block at any height. This combination of properties makes this a very versatile and powerful move. I will go over 2 primary ways this move can be used. Rising jY - As I said, this move can be used at jab speed consistently, with plenty of room for error. Just looking at the hit itself, you get a frame 13 (faster than frame 15 moves as I said) mid high that converts into either around 100 or around 220 damage depending on if it hits 1 or 2 hits respectively. In other words, it’s absolutely insane. On top of this, it dodges almost all command counters simply due to it bringing your hurtbox really high up. To drive the move home, it is either around -4 or around +4 on block depending on if you hit the 1st or 2nd hit respectectively, with a super high soar stance mixup on block. While this isn’t particularly scary for the opponent, they will have a very hard time punishing all of your options (particularly cross up into different stuff) due to how high you go. There are 2 weakness that this move truly has, the first being the fact that it can be preemptively anti aired, a very small flaw compared to the enormous amount of benefits that come with using the move. The second one is much bigger - it’s effectiveness is decided entirely based on match up. Some characters dodge it completely, while some get hit by the second hit every time. It is an incredible button even if you can only hit one hit, but the 2 hit version is obviously significantly better. Here is a link on the matchups it can or cannot be used in, and also some more info on the move itself: http://www.pokkenarena.com/forums/topic/1228-instant-jy-thread/ Overall, you use rising jY as a close quarters and sometimes mid ranged option for it’s safety, speed, hitbox, and combo potential. Against the characters that it works against, it is a very effective catch-all-buttons-with-a-low-invuln-jab-for-one-billion-damage-but-be-safe-if-they-block-or-reversal button, and against the characters it doesn’t it’s kinda bad outside of air to airs. It’s great when you’re +, it’s great when you’re -, it’s great on your wake up as well as on theirs, so long as you’re against a big enough character. Descending jY - The cool thing about jY is you don’t actually have to be descending in order to get a lot out of it as a jump in. you can use it around the apex of your jump, hit their block, and then be in an advantageous situation on the ground due to the 2nd hit. It’s the same for the conversions you can get off of it, too. Because of this along with it's big hitbox, it’s pretty hard to anti air, especially if they are a big opponent, and it’s also relatively quick for a jump in. This makes it good for capitalizing on openings, approaching at mid range, and obviously being a jumping move. As you will find as you play Decidueye, any + frames are incredibly good for you, so even hitting this on their block will make for a big shift in momentum. Although this is not as crazy as rising jY, it is still a very good tool, and makes his jump even better both offensively and defensively. DUEL PHASE PLAYSTYLE The way you play duel is obviously much more intricate than the way you play field due to how much more fleshed out the phase is. However, the general playstyle stuff I mentioned earlier still holds up. You can utilize Decidueye’s moveset in many ways, but the main goal your playstyle will revolve around is getting your pressure, because that’s where you get all of your damage. I will go over a whole bunch of pressure stuff soon in the guide, so bear with me. You can run away with all of your movement options and defensive buttons to force the opponent to take risks in order to catch you, which you can capitalize on and get your pressure. Inversely, you can keep on throwing yourself at the opponent in hopes that you will be able to get the advantage eventually to get the pressure. You can play a more patient offense, where you sit in mid range where you can easily capitalize on openings or launch surprise attacks to get your pressure. Basically, you want to make your opponent open themselves up by any means necessary so that you can capitalize on this opening and turn a single, small advantage into a large number of bigger advantages in which you have the potential to get a ton of damage safely. Decidueye has trouble getting the advantage to start off with, but once you get that advantage, it will be very hard for the opponent to shake it. PRESSURE Now, I’ve gone over soar stance pressure, but that’s only useful once you understand what to do before and after it. Now, let’s say you are at the advantage, or at 0. You have a plethora of powerful buttons that are very good on their own here, all of which capable of extending your pressure even further. You can play this in many ways, conditioning and matchup both being very important here, but I’ll try to give you a general idea of what to press. Useful pressure extenders due to soar cancels that are usually super viable in pressure: 5Y 5YY (low cancels) 8Y (high cancel) For reference, these moves are the best for going into soar stance pressure which makes them the best on block. The other soar cancels are alright too, but are not nearly as good as there either because they are not very good buttons in general or do not give as good of an advantage in soar stance. As I said, you usually want to cross up to dodge stuff and extend pressure, Y/YY to cover escape options and delayed buttons, and held acrobatics as a highly rewarding grab. Other non soar cancellable buttons may be preferred over these due to having more utility against other options, but these moves are the best against a blocking opponent. 0 (fY hit, opposing 0 on block moves) - 2Y is the fastest possible move here and can be further followed up on both hit and block thanks to its low hitlag. 2YY can also be good for it’s reward on hit and potential soar stance mixup. Both are obviously finicky on block because they are -4, but you still have options there due to low hitlag on 2Y and the soar cancel on 2YY. Jump dodges both of these and low crushes dodge 2Y, and frame 11s obviously clash. 5Y is a good option too and nets much more reward on hit and extending pressure better on block, but will lose to frame 11s, jumps, CAs if you 5YY, and will clash with frame 15s. Rising jY is godlike here, only losing to anti airs for the most part and getting a full combo/being safe on anything else, but that is obviously not possible in some matchups. 6X and descending jY will dodge lows here as a hard read and beat CAs, which is fine and dandy seeing as those are common here. Fury attack and rising jY are the best jump catchers here, 8Y being a tad too slow to catch jump, let alone be good against other options. 5XX is an obligatory high crush if you want a stronger option than 2YY. And of course, you can also grab, CA, or retreat. Backdash will get caught by most options at the wall, while you need to 5Y, 6X, or fury attack to beat it at mid range. +4 (5Y and 2Y hit, blocked 4Y, blocked [CA], blocked 6XXX, blocked first hit jY from a ground to air cross up and blocked first hit descending jY in general, etc.) - 2Y will beat every button without invuln to it, jab will clash with frame 11s, and 8Y will catch jump and clash with jabs. Fury attack is a bit worse than 8Y as a jump catcher here due to being riskier but is still appreciated for it’s speed. jY is still busted, 6X and descending jY are still hard read low crushes/CA destroyers, 5XX is still a hard read low crush and will go into ss pressure on block. Grab and retreat are good options, but maybe not CA. +8 (leaf blade hit, blocked 4[X], blocked 2nd hit desending jY, etc.) - 2Y is good for stuffing moves that are full invuln by frame 5 and is still your least commitment move, but you’d usually rather go for something with more reward at +8. 8Y is one of the best here, since it will cover everything but CA and allow for extended pressure on block. 5YY is more rewarding on hit but is worse than 8Y due to losing to jump. 5YR is good against CA and will go into soar stance pressure though, so you have more of a reason to use that over 8Y. Low and high crushes dont even matter at this point, but feel free to go for descending jY and 5XX if you think they will press a button that they don’t lose to. Rising jY is still busted when you can do it, and grab/retreat are still good. +12 (blocked safe jumps and blocked ground to air cancel 2nd hit jY) - 5Y catches all but CA so that becomes your go to button, but really go for whatever you want here lol Magnemite - Anything is possible but, like, dash up 4[X] -4 - block, CA, and backdash are good here, but if you want to capitalize on your opponent capitalizing on + frames, you can predict the height property of the move they will use and either jump for lows and mid lows or 8Y for highs and mid highs. If you think it will be a high for sure, you can 5XX. Do note that this tactic can be considered super wack, and usually not worth the risk if you always do it, especially against someone like lucario. 2Y is good if you think they won’t do a fast enough option themselves or grab, and also serves as a high crush. Rising jY is obviously really good, but mid lows will beat it because it gives up your mid low invulnerability so be careful of that in case the mid low is faster. You can also Frenzy Plant if you are crazy. When -8, you can still play the high/low game to a degree and use your reversals, but you cannot rely on simply throwing out a move that's faster than what they throw out. In any case, this is all situational compared to the block button. Don't default to pressing buttons when you're minus, ya dummy! So pretty much, Decidueye pressure can be summed up as: Be + or 0 > use a good button depending on how + you are > use a + soar stance cancel if you can > cross up and use empty land, jX, or jY > repeat. All of this is mostly safe and can be consistently done at a high level, but deviations from the series are necessary to both cover different options and punish a blocking opponent. Decidueye has a plethora of options here, so you can change it up a lot depending on the opposing player and the match up. Once you manage to hit a button or a grab, you usually get a bunch of damage and a really good oki situation, which I will go over now! OKI OPTIONS Generally, your best oki options that can be done without any special setups are: 4[X] - +8 on block piercing oki, it’s pretty good. It can be backdashed but can simply be delayed and is safe on backdash anyway 5YY - great on hit and on block, it’s just bad on CA 5YR - like 5YY, but less rewarding and harder to confirm. It beats CA, though. Descending jY - confirmable into big damage, +8 on block, and safe on most CAs, it’s a pretty good oki. You can also mix it up with a grab by landing without a jY and grabbing. Rising jY - Your only unreactable oki that is safe on pretty much everything, this is confirmable into big damage and safe on most reversals. Max range 4Y - safe on most but not all CAs due to the sheer disjointed range, it’s even better now thanks to it’s buff on block. 6X - one way to force it’s mixup, it does good damage at the wall and it’s a very easy to use oki. It even beats some CAs. It’s alright. In field - homing 1 is your go to, [CA] is + on block and safe on everything. OKI SETUPS This is where Decidueye oki shines. He has serviceable oki standalone, but when given time to set stuff up, he can be really scary. There are 4 setups, 3 of which are very powerful. The jY safejump - off of most knockdowns, even an ss X one, you simply do 8YR5R jY. With this simple oki, you are +12 on block, safe on frame 15 (and sometimes frame 11) CAs, and have enough time to block, realize you hit it, and then confirm when it hits. This alone is really good even for a reactable oki, but you can also mix this with 8YR held acrobatics for a truly devastating mixup at the wall. Do note that off of ss X, doing this safejump is not meaty and can be invulned through with frame 5 mid high invuln 8Ys. Luckily, you will always be safe on these and have enough time to block them, or something bigger. Similarly, you are also safe on umbreon. The ss Y safejump - Off of a low cancel (like 5YR or 6AA) you can set this up by simply going for 1 ss Y. After this, time the next ss Y to be meaty and you will be safe on frame 15 CAs and be +12 on block, just like the jY safejump. Unfortunately, this isn’t nearly as + on hit, but you can still get frame 19s by mashing and frame 9s after tapping block. Just like the jY safe jump, this can also be mixed with acrobatics to be truly scary. This is really good to set up after a psp thrifty wall combo, like jR[A] W! 6XX1 5YY8A 5YRY - it does around 230 damage off the top of my head, and sets up for the safe jump with 6 psp to spare. This is just an example, go crazy with your combos into this mixup! Magnemite - Off of a long knockdown, like 2XX or ss X, you can go for magnemite for a super safe, super + oki that does basically guaranteed chip. It is active enough that they can’t backdash, too. You can get pretty much free pressure off of this at any distance, but you can’t mix it up with grab before so it’s a free block for the most part. The super fake loser setup that isn’t actually that bad - off of crit CA in field next to the wall, go for 6AA. This is meaty enough to combo into YY and be safe on CA. It's basically a slightly better version of 5YR that you give the opponent all the time in the world to prepare for. It's kinda alright. MATCHUP SPECIFIC STUFF I don't plan on making a really big list out of this, so I'll give a few examples of how you can avoid certain stuff in your pressure while still being threatening. Find out the rest yourself or wait for that guide! Vs m2 in general - low cancels don't let you cross up. Just don't do them and get your kicks in with high cancels. vs psystrike - you can still cross up without fear of this move, just be on your toes. If they Psystrike, sucker punch on reaction. jY if not. If they delay, you are probably safe due to jY having little lag. vs Scizor 8Y - you can't do jack with low cancel crossup, but at the wall high cancel 6R > j4X goes high enough to punish this. To be honest, I'd low cancel too along with high cancels, but throw in some 5YYYs and maybe sucker punches to deter the 8Ys vs chandy 8Y - high cancel cross up can't do anything about this, but low cancel cross up jY beats it vs drill peck - you can only beat this with a +10 cancel into YY and clash with a +8 cancel YY. In other words, 5YYR and 6AA respectively into YY. Alternatively, any high cancel into 4R l cancel will allow you to punish it. As you can probably tell, drill peck really does severely limit your options, but thankfully the matchup is good enough to the point where you don't really need your full pressure to win it. You still have the options to pressure him though with these techs. vs quick CA reversals after blocked 6AR (like espeed) - you can 4R l cancel punish all of them after a slight delay. CONCLUSION That's about all I could think to add, and I think it turned out pretty alright! More resources can be found in other parts of the Decidueye section here on PA, make sure to check them out! Like with all of my guides, I am open to criticism and changing it. If you have anything good or bad to say about this guide, please tell me! I hope this helped you to become a super fly deciduguy.
  5. WHAT'S goin on, your friendly neighborhood actual irl decidueye boli boy here to give you yet another combo thread. Now, this is only half complete, as I only have mid screen optimals and a few close to wall combos down as of tonight, but I can only do so much in one night without getting tired out of my mind! I will be working more on this tomorrow, and I will probably get it fleshed out to a point of near completion soon enough, but I can do it even sooner with your help! If you run into a new optimal or got a list of your own to unload on me, shoot! Even if you don't even think it's optimal I can still put it there as a placeholder. Anyhow! This is what I got so far. I will also be adding oki setups, psp optimizations, and everything of the sort later if someone doesn't give them to me first, too. I would put easier to do combos, but the thing about aegislash is that without just frames, these optimals are heckin easy. So all of these, you want to go for anyway. In order to be optimal though, you gotta do the just frames! Parry followup will always be 2YX or 4Y against a bursted opponent, and 5Y followups against a non bursted one (or if both of you are in burst.) it does no scaling No attack buff All jYX finishers can be replaced with 6:X:X and 5A without changing damage, jYX just sets up for astonish in field + attack buff crit King's Shield 4A 6X 5A:X 5A:A:A - 215 6:X 6:X:X 6:X:X 4Y jYX - 180 jYY jYY 4Y 5X 6AR4A - 143, attack buff on shift jYY 4Y 6:X:X 5Y:X:X - 145, no attack buff on shift jYY 4Y 6AR4A - 150, optimal damage but you need to get a perfect ijY 5Y 5Y:X:X 6:X:X 4Y 5YA - 149 5YY 5YY:X:X 6:X:X 5YA - 141 5YYY 5YYY 6AR 4A -124 6Y:Y 6Y:Y 6:X:X 4Y jYX - 140 5X 5X 6AR 4A - 159, sacred sword mist jX jX 6:X:X 4Y 6:X:X 5Y:X:X - 160 jX 5X 6AR 4Y6R 4Y 5Y 5A:A:A - 151, side switch [CA] [CA] XR 4Y 5Y 5A:A:A - 148, attack buff 6A 6AR 4A - 157, sacred sword mist 6[A] 6[A]R 4Y6R 4Y 5A:A:A - 198 jA jA 4Y 6:X:X 5Y:X:X - 180 Crit combos no attack buff 8X 8X 4Y 6:X:X 6:X:X - 164 2Y 2YX 4Y6R 4Y 5A:A:A - 176 4Y 4Y 6:X:X 4Y jYX - 168 Defense form combos X XR 4Y 5A:X 5A:A:A - 189 5Y 5Y 4A - 128, sacred sword mist 5[A] 5[A] 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 242 6X 6X 6:X:X 5Y 5A:A:A - 234 6X 6:X:X 5A:X 5A:A:A - 234 6Y max distance 6Y6R 6:X:X 6:X:X 5Y 5A:A:A - 242 Attack (and speed) buff combos [just frames take me please] 6:X:X 6:X:X 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 272 jYY jYY jYY 4Y 6:X:X 5YA:A:A - 252 5Y 5Y:X:X 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 252 5YY 5YY:X:X 6:X:X 5Y5A:A:A - 242 5YYY 5YYYA:A:A - 184 6Y:Y 6Y:Y 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 247 5X 5X 6AR 4A - 205, sacred sword mist 5A:X 5A:X 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 253 6A 6AR 4A - 195 6[A] 6[A]R 4Y6R 4Y 5A:A:A - 228 jX jX 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 259 jA jA 4Y 6:X:X 5Y5A:A:A - 229 [CA] [CA] 5Y 4A - 191 + sacred sword mist Attack buff crit combos 8X 8X 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 272 2Y 2YX 4Y6R 4Y 5A:A:A - 221, side switch 4Y 4Y 6:X:X 4Y 5A:A:A - 270 Right next to the wall combos no buffs 6:X:X W! 8Y 5Y 4A - 207 +30, attack buff jYY jYY 4Y 6Y W! 8Y 5Y 4A - 181 +30, attack buff 2X 2X W! 8Y 5Y 4A - 165 +30 2Y 2YX W! 5Y 6A - 142 +30 8Y 8Y W! 4A 5Y 5Y:X:X W! 8Y 5Y 4A - 170 +30 5YY 5YY:X:X W! 4A - 168 +30 5YYY 5YYY W! 5Y 4A - 137 jX jX 6Y W! 8Y 4A - 189 [CA] [CA] XR W! 5A:X 5A:A:A - 165 +30 4X 4X W! 8Y 4A - 149 Shield form at the wall 5[A] 5[A] W! 5A:X 5A:A:X - 260 +30 5X 5XR W! 5A:X 5A:A:A - 237 +30 6X 6X 5AW!:X 5A:A:A - 252 +30 6Y max distacne 6Y6R 6:X:X W! 5A:X 5A:A:A - 269 +30 Attack buff at the wall 6:X 6:X:X W! 5A:X 5A:A:A - 282 +30 JX jX 5Y W! 5A:X 5A:A:A - 271 +30 jY jYY 4Y 5AW!:X 5A:A:A - 269 +30 2Y 2YX W! 5Y 6A - 174 +30 6[A] 6[A] W! jA 5Y 5A:A:A - 266 +30 much more to come here's the google doc where I change everything in real time! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FWNnFb-VsjRS5vecafiv-E4nahfW8RORXsmTZZ_h3cg/edit
  6. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zbyzIppkaI2_Bj2-gdDJ3WznUxUqMrfkZhySQoM2lzA/edit#gid=0 how to read: if something is 4 on block, its +4 on block. If something is -4 on block, it's -4. look at the big book of frame data not for owl stuff cos it's inaccurate but instead for how to read the frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/108awMgIuD21L0d1SQneG9w3KOyzwmWQ8335mkrOmm54/edit#gid=1602977002 and then height properties, look at this to understand what they are: http://www.pokkenarena.com/forums/topic/277-pokkén-height-invincibility-interactions/ for the damage and scaling i'm pretty sure its self explanatory for the soar cancel frame data look at my sick soar cancel guide by going back to the decidueye section and clicking on it. It's a lil bit inaccurate and i gotta update it soon but for the most part the info still holds up, and the accurate data is on this sheet anyway. Use your resources!
  7. Bolimar

    instant jY thread

    This is a guide for the fantastic option that is instant jY! Before we get into the guide, let's look at jY itself. It is a frame 7 aerial, just as fast as lucario's jY, meaning that if you do it right as your prejump frames end it will effectively be a frame 14 move. As you may know, you can cancel jY into soar stance with R, so regardless of where and how you hit it, odds are you're going to be getting something out of it. You can get a full combo on hit, a (minus) soar stance mixup on block, and complete safety on most CAs. This is obviously pretty darn fantastic, but what is there to gain from using this button over your other buttons? Our 5Y and 2Y are among the best fast buttons, after all. Well, 2Y is super safe on everything, including CA, but only does 10 damage unless you use the second part to sacrifice it's safety. 5YY does fine damage, has a great hitbox, and is great on block, but is pretty darn unsafe on CA. instant jY pretty much combines the two into a really good button, as it pretty much lacks the weaknesses of the two, and makes their strengths even bigger. It even catches jumps really well, something the mid low 5Y and low 2Y cannot do well. This is at the cost of being disadvantageous on block and only being allowed to do soar stance stuff, not being bufferable (making it pretty iffy to do after being frozen unless you practice it out of the block/hitstun of every single move), and not being possible to hit on every character. Yah, in order for insant jY to be reliable on a grounded opponent, you have to be playing against certain characters. Here is a list! It's just outright impossible on: pikachu pikachu libre weavile croagunk chandelure braixen gengar it's very, very weird on suicune because his hitbox is stupid. If done instantly the first hit will always hit, but depending on where you hit it on his hitbox you may or may not get the second hit. First hit only (2nd hit can be achieved by delaying it a little) decidueye lucario darkrai empoleon get hit with both hits reliably blaziken scizor mewtwo shadow mewtwo machamp sceptile garchomp charizard its pretty good on all the characters that its not impossible on, as you still get a combo off of the first hit (ijYRX - 130) but you do get a full combo on those that get hit by both hits. Here are some bnbs! midscreen: ijYRYY6R jY 6AAY~YX - 208 at the wall: ijYR[A] W! reverse 8YRA6RX - 235+30 half of ferrum stadium to the wall: ijYRYY6R jY 6AA6R jY (1 hit) W! reverse 8YRA just a few examples. Obviously you gotta do stuff like psp optimizations and they won't always be on the half mark of ferrum stadium. You can also do character specific stuff on scizor: ijYRYYYX 6AAY~YX - 247 also on scizor: ijYRYY[A] reverse 8YRYX (they fall behind you) 6AAW!X - 245+30 Hope this helped! I've been using this a lot personally, and I think it's a really good way to utilize jY.
  8. Bolimar

    Morning Discussion: Synergy Burst

    I think synergy burst is a great mechanic that plays a great role in the balance of this game in your options to deal with bursted opponents, how easy it is for you to get burst, and how strong your burst is. It also gives everyone a really good defensive reversal that reduces the influence of guessies in the game, while also not being broken because it deals no damage and requires a full meter to use. There are also many supports and cheer skills that revolve around synergy, adding yet another level of depth to deciding what you bring to a match. As for the stat buffs, I believe that the stat buffs are enough to make a big difference, but not enough to be broken. Added moves that are ridiculous serve for further balance of the synergy burst characters, as a 150 cc character should be better in burst than a 100cc character if they are just as good in every other aspect. When it comes to the burst armor, I would like to point out that if Mr. Harada wanted to, he can give a pokemon all strong attacks so that they just don't care about burst armor. It serves as further balance for the characters as a whole, making some better against bursted opponents than others, and serves as incentive to win or keep up in the synergy race, or to bring a support that lets you do better against bursted opponents. Most burst attacks being frame 5 invulnerable is perfectly fine if you ask me, it gives bursted characters an out for pressure when they should be in control of the match anyway, and it's not like you cant play around the 4 frames where it is vulnerable. As for the burst attacks themselves, I think they are fine because they further deter risky play from the opponent, and allow the bursted opponent to control the match that they deserve to control for winning the synergy race. Overall, I think that the synergy burst mechanic is well balanced, and that if it were changed to be worse it would take away a lot of the game's depth.
  9. was happenin dudes, boli boy here to tell you guys all about soar stance cancels. First thing's first, soar stance cancels are when you use one of these moves and press R to go into the air in soar stance: 5XX 5Y 5YY 5YYY 6A 6AA (you don't press R, it goes into soar stance automatically) 2YY 8Y homing attack jY (it doesn't follow the same rules as any other cancel, you just go into your normal jR stance) you can use the following moves in soar stance: 6R - in most cases, crosses up the opponent. No landing lag after a soar cancel. You can even use any jumping moves out of it and they'll have no landing lag! Probably the most useful move, but it does have weaknesses, such as moves that hit all around the opponent and the opponent being able to punish it with any quick move if they expect it, the punish window is pretty tight though and you can use jumping moves to potentially counter these. 4R - has quite a few invulnerable frames, but you cant do anything after it until you hit the ground. It has a ton of landing lag, but it can be cancelled by pressing X or Y as you almost hit the ground. You can't do this lag cancel off of some soar cancel moves, which I will get into soon. 5R - has no special properties, but you can act out of it the quickest. everything you can do out of it is covered by pretty much any move the opponent can go for, except for sucker punch which is probably the whole reason you'd use this move. Many moves are punished by 5R sucker punch, including a bunch stuff that is really good against most of your other options. I'll list a few examples in the countering common reversals section. Y- a frame 17 mid high. Between this and X, this is your only safe attack to hit them with. It's +4 on block, though you only have your soar stance options to take advantage of that. It can be cancelled into YY or YX, both are true combos and block strings. YY is the safer and more rewarding one, as its only -4 on block and gets a full combo, but YX is good for the full invuln it gives you vs CAs (it's soar stance X). if you just use Y, you will still be in soar stance and able to use any soar stance move. This is notated with a ~. If you use Y or YY again in this state, you go out of soar stance and usually arent able to do anything until you hit the ground. X- a frame 13 mid high that has a low hitbox when it hits the ground. It is -16 on block, but absolutely insane in every other conceivable way. it's completely invulnerable early on in the move, and the invulnerability goes all the way up until it hits. It also does 100 damage on hit, full combo at the wall, and if used when + the low hitbox will always beat conventional anti airs despite mid high invulnerability. This makes it a fantastic move to use if you read them using an attack, since it will beat out or clash with almost everything, and getting at least a 6th of their health to boot. This is at the cost of being jab punishable on block, though. A- a very slow air grab that does a lot of damage. It is easily reactable, but it's still good if they empty jump, CA, are asleep, or anything like that. it's pretty alright when they don't expect the soar cancel, but all around outclassed by [A]. You get a full combo if your back is against the wall with this. [A] - though still slow, it is basically A but faster which makes all the difference. on hit, you throw them forward and do 60 damage for a no psp knockdown. If the wall is in front of you, you get a full combo off of this. It is still reactable, but not by much. A much more viable grab mixup than A. There are 2 effective heights that you can be at after a soar stance cancel. They are technically all at a different height, but there is never a difference that goes farther than low/high as far as I know. At both heights you can use all your soar stance moves, but there are a few key differences. At the low height, Y~Y/Y~YY gets almost no end lag to the point where its at least +9 on block and at least +17 on hit. With the low cancels, you also can't cross over mewtwos and garchomp with 6R, or do the 4R l cancel I mentioned earlier. With high cancel, those problems are fixed but you can't do the no lag Y~Y. Overall though, high cancel is better than low cancel. you'll mostly be doing low cancels however, because all 5Y followups are low cancels and 5Y is broken. Here is the height and advantage of all glide cancels: high 5XX - +8 on block 2YY - 0 on block 8Y - +8 on block 6A- -8 on block low 5Y - +8 on block 5YY - +9 on block for some reason? 5YYY - same as 5YY 6AA - +9 on block for some reason? doesnt lead into anything on hit, but its +12 on hit. +8 and +9 mixup: cross up works vs all anti airs that don't cover their back. Even extreme speed and quick attack. Yup. Sucker punch will also work vs a lot more moves than with 0 and -8. X will beat every single high invuln move. Y clashes with frame 9s when +8, and beats them when +9, it will always lose to anti airs though. Still good vs anything not anti air though. Because of you being at such a big advantage and threatening most of their options, they may not want to actually hit a button. If you don't think they'll do anything as a response, you can [A], go for Y for +4, or just cross them up anyway because its very hard to punish and you go back to neutral state very quickly, and can go for your + on block jY if they are at the wall and + on block jX anywhere else. If you can do the 4R l cancel, it can be pretty neat if you wait a bit and use it to invuln through a response you can't cross oveer and be + or even punish, along with being better off than if you dont hit X or A 0 mixup: You can still cross over anything that doesn't cover their back, but now Y isn't that great because it's so slow and X will either clash with or lose to most anti airs if you don't delay it a bit. 4R l cancel becomes more useful since you actually need to use it sometimes if you don't want to sucker punch. -8 mixup: You can still cross over most stuff, but a few moves will work when they usually don't, like mewtwo 8Y. X is still useful since it gets invuln, and its one of your only options to hit stuff since you are -8, of course. 4R l cancel is also good because it gets invuln, too. all in all, 6AR is only good as a CA read and vs mewtwo because 6AA is a low height cancel. On block, you can't do that much but can still deal with anything technically. DEALING WITH COMMON REVERSALS if you aren't -8, 6R will cross up most fast armor moves like extreme speed, volt tackle, u-turn, et cetera. if you are -8, you have to delayed 4R these moves. if you buffer 4R, it will lose to them for some reason, so you have to time it slightly late. scizor 8Y: sucker punch, 4R l cancel, and X when +8 all beat this chandy 8Y: same as scizor 8Y, but you can 6R this when +8 psystrike:sucker punch, 6R when high, and 4R l cancel beat this. knock off: you can Y and X this when 0 or +8, you can also sucker punch it. iAD jY: same as knock off. mewtwo 8Y: you can cross this over when +8 or 0 if you are high, but other wise you need to X or 4R l cancel. don't 5YYR vs this character. frenzy plant: you have to 4R regardless of height, sometimes you can X or hitbox dodge with 6R. both of those are pretty tight, and 4R is the easiest way to escape getting hit and you get a big punish. It may be worthwhile to not soar cancel much in the ditto. more stuff will be added as I lab more! I have applied all of these punishes and mixups in tournament, they are all strong and despite some being risky, learning to utilize them all can make for a very strong pressure game that the opponent will have trouble responding to. Crossup is simply amazing, but in order to deter it's counterplay you have to take a few risks.
  10. @causey_dale, look up bolimar on twitter to find me. I'm the true decidueye man, I provide updates on all thing decidueye and make a lot of good resources, way more than the other decidueye guys.
  11. Bolimar

    birbo combos

    hey, boli boy here, im gonna be giving a few mid screen and wall bnbs. I'll be adding more to it like stupid 1 hit jRX shenanigans, mid screen wall carries, character specific stuff, and all that. Right now though, i'm only giving the basic stuff you can do on everyone. If something isn't optimal (and the optimization isn't super hard to do) or doesn't work on every character, be sure to let me know. note:all things done in a single soar stance will be treated as one move. All unsoar stuff, like unsoar jY, will be a seperate move from it. Homing Homing RX, do this always in field, 110 and knockdown. make sure you actually comfirm it though. Midscreen no wall 5XX 5XX 6AAY~Y 2XX - 201. doesn't shift, and might lead into something on the wall. 5XX 6AAY~Y 5YY4A - 202. Shifts 5XX 6AAY~Y 8YRX - 209, for when you're really good at buffering out of 6AAY~Y 5XXR6R jY 6AAY~Y 2XX - 200, corner carry combo 5XXR6R jY 6AA6R jY jYRYX - 189, like the most corner carry you're gonna get 5Y 5YYRX - 136, less psp than 5YYYRX 5YYYRX - 142 4X 4X 5YYYRX - 166 4[X] 4[X] 5XX 6AAYX - 215 [CA] [CA] 6AAY~Y 2XX - 138, doesn't shift [CA] 6ARX - 142, shifts. You can sneak in a fly stance Y before the X on some characters for 150. [CA] 6AAY~Y 8YRX - 144, a bit harder than normal due to everything being height based off of [CA] [CA] 6AA6R jY jYRX - 134, for corner carry 2Y 2YY6AY - 102, +8 4Y 4Y 2YY6AY - 120, +8 jRY jRYY6R jY 6AAY~YX - 200 jY take into account that this adds 1 psp to whatever combo you do after, unlike most jYs. Also, if you hit it high, go for 5YYRX because 5XX might not work if it hits too high jY 5XX 6AAY~Y 2XX - 205 air to air jY AA jYRYY6R jY 6AAY~YX - 197, very easy to do regardless of height anti air 8Y high hit - AA 8YR6R jY 6AAY~Y 2XX - 184, doesnt shift high hit - AA 8YR6R jY 6AAY~YX - 184, does shift low hit - AA 8YRYY6R jY 6AAYX - 177 anti air 6A AA 6AAYYR6R jY 5XXRY~YX - 199 AA 6AAY~Y 5XXRY~YX - 222, needs a pretty high hit, not possible in +8/+4 situations where you use it to catch jump last hit of 6XXX 6XXX last hit 6AA6R jY 6ARX - 241, too much HECKin damage, why is this move so good crit 8X 8X 5XX 6AAY~YX - 215 right next to wall combos note: make sure to step back a bit before doing most of these 8Ys. 2X 2X W! 8YR6R jY 6AAYX - 242 +30 4[X] 4[X] 2X W! 8YR6R jY 6AAX - 245 +30 4[X] 2X W! jR[A] reverse 8YRA 6RX - 243 +30, its only a 2 damage difference just do it for the style 5XX 5XX W! 8YR6R jY 6AAYX - 240 +30 6X 6X W! 8YR6R jY 6AAYX - 210 + 30 jR[A] jR[A] W! 2nd hit 6XX 5YY 6AAX - 241 (9 psp) jR[A] W! 2nd hit 6XX 5YY 8A 5Y 8A 6XXX - 231 +30 jR[A] W! 6AR6R jY 6AAX - 248 +30 (hard to do) jR[A] W! j5R[A] reverse 8YRAR6R jY 5YY 8A - 226 +30 (easy to do) jRX jRX W! 6ARX - 173 +30 5Y 5YYRX W! 6ARX - 179 +30 [CA] [CA] W! 6ARYX - 182 +30 crit 8X 8X 2X W! 8YR6R jY 6AAX - 243 +30 jRY jRYY W! [A] reverse 8YRA W! 6RYX 231 +30 Note: for reverse 8Y, you have to hit it at the top of the move, just as they're falling from the wall. the window is forgiving enough to be consistent. Wall carry Note: for maximum wall carry, walk forward a bit every time you can! also refer back to reverse 8Y stuff. if you don't get the reverse 8Y, go for RX for still respectable damage 5XX mid screen 5XX 6AA6R jY W! reverse 8YRA - ~224 +30, if you're not quick to the draw on R6R 5XXR6R jY 6AA6R jY W! reverse 8YRA - ~227 +30, perhaps the best midscreen when it comes to damage and consistency close to wall but not point blank 5XX 6AW!R[A] reverse 8YRA - 247 +30, oof max screen, fishing for +30 5XXR6R jY 6AAY~Y 2XX - 200, great middle ground between damage and wall carry if you're uncertain 5XXR6R jY 6AA6R jY 8YR[A] W! 4A - 191 +30, more wall carry if you really want that +30 J6RY exact same as 5XXR6R jY but you can do it at a greater distance basically [CA] not too far from wall [CA] 6AA6R jY W! reverse 8YRA - 145 +30, can't go for double jY because 21 hits [CA] 6AW! 6ARX - 190 +30 mid screen [CA] 6AA6R jY 2XX W! 2XX - 150 +30, this move is weird, man [CA] 6AA6R jY 5XXR[A] W! 66 4A - 142 +30 crit 8X mid screen 8X 5XXR6R jY 6AA6R jY W! j6RX - 214 +30 close to wall 8X 6AA 6AW!R[A] 6XXX - 245 +30 6XXX last hit mid screen 6XXX 6AA6R jY jYW! reverse 8YRA - 253 +30, this move is awesome, man not to far from the wall 6XXX 6AARYW![A] reverse 8YRA - 260 +30, what the heck 6XXX 6AW!R[A] reverse 8YRA - 267 +30, someone please break universal 300 with this move fishing for +30 The optimal is already probably the best wall carry you can get lol Note: 6AA is height dependent, I'll only be doing the hit when they try to jump when -8 and you hit them with it. Please understand! air 6AA midscreen 6AA6R jY 5XXR[A] W! reverse 8YRA - 211 +30 6AA6R jY 6AW!R[A] reverse 8YRA - 245 +30, on the last 6A you must drop at least one hit. also works closer to the wall because 6A splat is broken. close to wall 6AW!R[A] reverse 8YRARYX- 254 +30 fishing for +30 max screen 6AA6R jY jYRYY6R jY 4A - 186 6AA6R jY 5XXR6R jY jYRX - 187, less wall carry i think? low to ground 8Y mid screen 8YRYY6R 6AAY[A] W! j6RYX- 189 +30 close to wall 8YRYY6R jY W! reverse 8YRA - 209 +30 max screen fishing for +30 8YRYY6R jY 6AA6R jY 6XXX - 167, make sure you hit the 6A as high as you can so that you dont get all hits on the second part of it high up 8Y mid screen 8YR6R jY 6AA6R jY W! reverse 8YRA - 211 +30 close to wall 8YR6R jY 6AW!R[A] reverse 8YRA - 234 +30 max screen fishing for +30 8YR6R jY 6AA6R jY jYRX - 172 corner carry combos are a really tough thing to capture the entirety of, which is why I haven't gotten into it until now. this is a good starting point though, I hope! Most of these are most certainly not optimal, and if they are there are very many situations where they arent. hence why I hate recording every corner carry combo with the entirety of my hecking existence! back against the wall combos jRA jRAW!6R[A] reverse 8YRA6RYx - 203 +30, yes, the coolest combo ever is also optimal. This makes owl the coolest character 5XX 5XXRAW!6RY~YX - 213 +30, liking how long these singular inputs are? I'm keeping this rule. [CA] [CA] 5XXRAW!6R[A] 5Y8A - 157 +30, walk forward a bit before 5XX, take out 5Y for an easier time crit 8X 8X 5XXRAW!6R~YX - 221+30 (wip character specific section) 5XX no wall 5XXR6R jY 8YRYX jYRYX - 214 works on: scizor, pika libre, lucario, blaziken, fennekin, machamp. croagunk, shadow mewtwo, garchomp, weavile, mewtwo j6RYY no wall j6RYY~YX 6AAY~Y 2XX - 249 works on: scizor, blaziken, mewtwo, shadow mewtwo jRA wall jRA W! 6RX 6AW!RYX - 242 +30 works on: scizor, mewtwo, shadow mewtwo jR[A] wall jR[A] W! reverse 8YRYX (they go behind you) 6AAW!YX - 276 +30 works on:scizor, pika libre, lucario, blaziken, fennekin, machamp. croagunk, shadow mewtwo, garchomp, weavile, mewtwo more later again, just tell me if you've got anything to add. I'll probably add and change a lot when I find the time.
  12. bro fam, my very own fam bro, can lucario do 2X 6A (not on gardevoir)
  13. Bolimar

    Kara Cancels

    In Pokkén tournament, there is a mechanic that lets you cancel a move into grab, counter attack, or burst declare/attack by pressing the second button in it's respective button combination. For instance, if you use Lucario 6Y and input B right after, you will use the startup of the 6Y, but cancel it into a grab. This is very useful for extending Lucario's grab range by a whole lot. Here is an example: While Lucario may benefit the most from this tech, very many Pokemon can make use of it to a great extent. Plenty of other pokemon can extend their grabs quite a lot with this, like Shadow Mewtwo with his 8Y, or Blaziken with his 6Y. This can also be used to extend the range of your counter attack, however useful that may be. The latest you can cancel the move is on the 3rd frame, so the window is pretty tight, but it becomes pretty easy with practice. This also means that you can't get cheeky with certain move properties unless they come out on frame 1, but you can still get creative with the few moves with frame 1 properties! You can use this with armor and counter attack moves to add safety to your grab or time to your counter attack, but if the moves are hit while they are active they will play out as normal without cancelling. In frame tight situations, Lucario and Pikachu can use this this to not use their dragon punches and instead counter attack if they don't get hit, for instance. This goes the same for moves that tech grab on frame one. If you use an 8X before cancelling into CA when -8, you will be safe from a mashed grab and get a full punish, while using a CA afterwards if you do not tech a grab (you'll still get hit by frame 9 attacks, haHAA). There are also pretty silly impractical applications of this tech, such as getting Pikachu Libre to make a sound effect from one of his Pokemon moves as he counter attacks, or getting Shadow Mewtwo to make a fake pillar with his grab. There is a lot of room for exploration with those 3 frames, so go wild. There is one exception to the 2 button combination rule, and also one exception to the counter attack playing all the way through if it hits rule, and both of these involve a fully charged support and the R button. If your synergy gauge is not full, you can cancel support into block, following all the same rules as kara cancelling. Although block isn't a 2 button combination, it's still a kara cancel from support which is kinda rad but not really applicable. If you are using a counter attack support, it will play all the way through instead of cancelling into block if it gets hit, so maybe there is a use with a support like electrode? When your support gauge IS full, or you are currently in burst mode, you can kara cancel support into burst declare or burst attack. In both cases, a counter attack support will NOT play through if it is hit, and instead you will get the kara cancel! This is really cool since you can turn burst attacks with no armor into burst attacks with a little bit of armor, and that little bit can go a long way since hitboxes stop being active as soon as they hit something. I hope this taught you a thing or two about all the things you can do with kara cancelling, the tech is super groovy and totally worth some lab time with your character.
  14. I espeed after BA every now and then, but not nearly as much as grab, 6Y, 8Y, or 5Y because its so unsafe. it's not actually a 50/50 between grab and espeed because all 8Ys beat both options. It's definitely a viable option though, because it consistently gets a ton of damage regardless of the not block, 8Y, backdash, or CA option they choose, and also beats a lot of stuff other moves wont such as jump.
  15. Bolimar

    Share Your Pokkén Community Story

    Before Pokkén tournament dropped I mostly played vgc. I was a pretty good player and still am, at least for a senior. I was also pretty active in the g+ smash community, but I never really did anything in those games except screw around in training mode with olimar and play friendlies with tournament goers I happened to know from pokemon. I was a nobody without a voice in both communities, and I only had one person I could really relate to when it came to real life. Being a pokemon player, I obviously knew Pokkén was a thing way back when it was first announced. I never actually got excited about the game, even when I finally got to play it at worlds 2015. I played gardevoir because I had her on my vgc team and had no idea what I was doing. The next time I'd play the game was the gamestop early access tournament, where I went 0-1. I didn't think I would end up playing the game at any more than a casual level, but I picked the game up at release anyway, and it was the best decision I've ever made in my life. Pokkén was something completely new, a game where nobody knew anything about how things worked from the get go. There were so many things to discover, and I loved it. Whenever I'd find something new, I remember getting so excited that I'd dance around the room before posting it on the lucario discord, sometimes to find out that I just invented a bnb. I felt like I was among the first to apply the powerful combos so many people complain about now. A lot of people have called me a lab monster, even though they may not remember it now. The feeling of being an important part in advancing the meta of a character felt great, even though I don't know how much I actually contributed looking back. Even though I don't have many people who consider me to be a close friend from the Pokkén community, I have nothing but fond memories of everyone here and I love every single person who plays this game. I didn't know what it was like to have real friends before this game, and I hope it never goes away.
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