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H2_

Gardevoir Moderators
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About H2_

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    Veteran Battle Trainer
  • Birthday November 29

Battle Pokémon

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    Gardevoir

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  1. Hi All, H2 here. First I want to say, I definitely recommend the game's tutorial for learning first and foremost. That said I wanted to write up a very short and sweet tl;dr guide for Pokkén DX that is easy to digest. Turns out there's a lot to cover even with me trying to make this tl;dr, so let's start: Overview of coverage: 1. Attack Triangle 2. Crush system 3. Armors & Piercing 4. Frame advantage - coming soon 5. Cancels - coming soon 6. Support/Assist - coming soon 7. Synergy Meter - coming soon 1. Attack Triangle I'll start here, because most people will not have trouble identifying with this system. The attack triangle is akin to rock paper scissors in several ways, this isn't a fully proper description, but it gets the point across. The triangle is comprised of 5 things even though it's a triangle: A. Attack (uncolored and red effects) B. Block (light blue shield that gets darker when weak, lump this in with Counter) C. Counter (blue effects, lump with this in with Block) D. Grab (green effects) E. Piercing (can be Attacks or Counters will be covered later in full) Each item of the triangle beats something else in the triangle and loses to something else in the triangle. If you win an exchange in this system you score a critical hit for bonus damage in your combo, block is the only exception where critical hits are not involved. Block and Counter have a similar purpose, in high level play, block is a more reliable defensive option. The priority of the triangle is as follows: Attack Beats Grab - Gain frame advantage (ability to attack first) or crush grabs depending on timing. Up + Strong attack always crushes grab regardless of timing. Loses to Counter - Attacks hit armor giving synergy meter to your opponent Block Nullifies Attacks - Most attacks that can't be charged hitting block will cause you to have frame advantage (meaning you can attack before your opponent) Loses to Grab - Grabs are unblockable (will not result in a critical hit however) Counter Beats Attack - armors attacks during startup into a briefly vulnerable counter attack hitbox. Counters usually beat attacks, but it's possible to be hit during a few frames in between armor and the counter attack hitbox. Loses to Grab - Grab beats counter armor, it is possible if a counter attack hits early enough to hit someone out of their grab animation startup Grab Beats Counter - Grab bypasses counter armor, counter attacks can hit the start-up of grabs in rare situations Loses to Attack - You will lose frame advantage if you grab at the start of an attack animation or be crushed if you grab late into an attack animation. Some attacks always crush grabs regardless of timing Piercing How does piercing fit into this? Piercing is a property on attacks or counters. It is often tied into charged up moves and can be attacks or counter attack options. The main thing to understand here is that a piecing hitbox will always break through armor if it connects with it. 2. Crush System What is the crush system? Simply put, it is a system where some options have invincibility frames against other options. This is most easily observed by using characters that can crouch to avoid attack options with a height property of "high". Every move in the game has an offensive crush property associated with it. Additionally there are defensive states with defensive crush properties too. Offensive/Attack Crush Properties High - most anti air attacks (up + light attack) Mid-high - most grab crush attacks (up + strong attack) Mid - a rare attack property Mid-low - most attacks and counter attacks in the game have this property Low - most crouching attacks and grabs in the game have this property Defensive Crush Properties High invincibility - Avoids only high attacks Mid-high invincibility - Avoids mid-high attacks and high attacks Mid invincibility - True invincibility, avoids all attacks Mid-low invincibility - Avoids mid-low attacks and low attacks Low invincibility - Avoids only low attacks Common Defensive States Low stance - Has high invincibility Anti-air state - Has mid-high invincibility, a property of anti air attacks (up + light attack) Airborne - Has low invincibility, active while in the air after initial jump frames Jump start-up - Has low invincibility, active while jumping before you are off the ground Initial jump frames - Has mid-low invincibility, active after your character leaves the ground of a jump until you start reaching the top of your jump Super flash - Has mid invincibility, active at different frames depending on the super/burst attack being used Burst activation - Has mid invincibility, active frame 1 upon activating your burst mode, a great get off me tool 3. Armor & Piercing There are 3 kinds of armor in the game. Counter armor, Attack armor, and Light Attack Armor. The common trend of all armors is that you don't take hitstun. Counter Armor By this point in the guide you are probably familiar the basics of how this works. Counter armor beats attacks and loses to grabs and pierces. It's important to also note that any non-piercing hits that connect with your counter armor will not deal damage to you at all, and you will gain synergy meter towards your burst for armoring attacks. Being hit during counter armor will cause the game to briefly pause a few frames per hit as well potentially giving players extra time to react and release their counter attack. Attack Armor There are a few moves in the game that have attack armor, this is red armor. You will still take damage from these attacks, but you can't be grabbed and will always grab crush. There is 1 exception to the grab crush rule and that is for grab supers/burst attacks. Grab supers/burst attacks will always crush any armor that is active including attack armor. Light Armor This armor is granted when you activate your full synergy meter and are in burst mode. Fast light attacks will not cause hitstun to you unless your opponent is also in burst mode, but these attacks will still deal damage. Only strong attacks with slightly more startup will be able to inflict hitstun to you while your opponent is not also in their burst mode.
  2. Can you link the list of prior threads for polls in the initial post too?
  3. It was an enjoyable event. Out of curiosity what mediums did we advertise on for requesting volunteers to help run Pokkén?
  4. H2_

    Cheer Skill Discussion!

    It depends on the bonuses you get. Whimsical can be good or bad for every character. The biggest issues are round 1 bonuses and round 2 or 3 no bonuses. Round 1 bonuses can heavily skew how a match should normally flow. If you get support round one then you have the advantage for winning the opening field phase. If you get 30+% then it's like you won a field phase at round start. If you get 30%+ at round start and win the open field phase you are guarenteed burst unless you choose to take shield breaks or you're a 250 CC character or Mewtwo. Normally round 1 it's not guarenteed either player will get burst, except for 100 CC characters where it is extremely likely they will (unless they win 0 interactions and lose the round to a combo that KOs them as their burst meter is topped off) For 100 CC characters best case scenario is running Jirachi, Whimsical, and on Round 1 getting 30%+ & Jirachi at start. If they win the opening fiel phase they can pop Jirachi and be in Burst Mode within the first 10 seconds of round 1, then potentially get a second burst as well, as 40 seconds later Jirachi will be back. For 200 CC characters if they win the opening field phase and have a 30%+ Whimsical Cheer bonus then odds are they will get Burst in round 1, which is huge for these characters. For 250 CC characters they too have a similar situation to 200 CC characters, but need to work slightly harder for the burst. With 30% they start round 1 with 75 CC, with 40% they start round 1 with 100 CC (Which effectively turns them into a 150 CC character for round 1, and 150 CCs or less can regularly get burst every round) Now on the other side of things, the other problem area is round 2/3 no bonus situations (or even 10% bonus in a lot of situations). No bonus can be problematic for many reasons. If you're at the end of a round and choose to use burst to close out the round while running whimsical, but you get no bonus for that prior round, if you lost you would have been better off holding onto burst, likewise if you won it may still have been unnecessary to burst. Getting no bonus and starting behind on synergy in the next round is never good, especially the higher you are in burst tier. What's more is that Whimsical incentivizes you to use your burst at the end of a round in such situations, because of the benefits, but gambling like that is what can cause you to put yourself in a disadvanteous situation due to luck. Round 3 can be especially punishing if you get no bonus. Your opponent will have a bonus if they aren't running Whimsical themselves, and if the opponent is running Pressure, it's especially bad. Worse case scenario is when you have to use your burst to win round 2 and get stuck with nothing for round 3. Odds are your opponent has synergy carry over from the prior round as you just used burst to win round 2 and you're stuck with nothing, plus they get their round 3 bonus. This is less concerning for a 100 CC character as it's likely they'll get burst by the end of the round. If you're a 150 CC character as long as you don't lose to them bursting earlier in the round in response to you getting close to full meter then you should be able to get meter as well even when starting from 0. All in all, I think Whimsical favors potentially every character while also not favoring potentially every character. 100 CC and 150 CC characters who are also using Jirachi or a support that will likely win them the opening field phase I think are going to be more consistently getting results with Whimsical simply because the 30 CC from Jirachi/winning field phase is such a significant portion of their meter AND also of great importance, even if they get nothing these characters are likely to get burst once per round anyways. This potentially means that in a 150 CC or less character match up versus a 200 CC or 250 CC, that the 200+ CC characters may want to make the choice to gamble with Whimsical, but I believe this is a flawed perspective. I would instead choose pressure as the 200+ CC characters, so that you give yourself the best chance consistently. With pressure round 1, if it's a 150 CC character you can potentially keep them from bursting. Round 2 you will have burst. Finally for round 3 you will be the same burst tier as the other character and get earn burst in that round just like they do on round 1, except you also have your support for the opening field phase.
  5. H2_

    Cheer Skill Discussion!

    Mewtators thought of Whimsical not being uncompetitive is not properly though out. He explains that is an effect that you manage it's risk reward, but you in fact do not. Whimsical is not something you manage proactively. It's something you react to. It's uncompetitive in significant part due to it being PVE in PVP scenario. Control of resource strategy is driven by the game, not the player. As for the rest I won't blame Whimsical for a set loss, because wholestically there's more to factor into a set. I will blame Whimsical for putting players I play against in disadvanteous situations they haven't earned and I will also blame it for putting me in disadvanteous situations the other player hasn't earned. I also do not acknowledge it as fair as it is worth blaming as I previously stated. There is too much putting words into other people's mouth that they aren't saying or not implying going on in some of these posts. I am willing to discredit those games as well. Like I said O won't blame Whimsical for winning or losing a set solely by itself, but I will say that given a completely equal matchup the luck it offers can be the deciding factor of someone getting or not getting access to burst the most powerful tool in the game. Such situations do not maintain their competitive integrity. So to recap while Whimsical can not be the sole reason for a win or a loss, as that is impossible anyways, it can be the deciding factor of denying or granting the strongest advantage state in the game. Only one player has to run it to potentially soil competitive integrity and it just gets more risky when two players are running it. When both players are running it the most extreme scenario in a game is Max bonuses all rounds and no bonuses for the other player in all rounds. This is especially uncompetitive when it happens. But more than that 10% synergy all rounds is also uncompetitive when it happens. As is any combination of nothing, 10%, and only getting support once in a game.
  6. H2_

    Cheer Skill Discussion!

    Personally I would never say I lost a set soley because of a cheer, and you won't hear people say it for many reasons. I will say that I have been put into advantageous situations I don't deserve and disadvanteous situation that the other player didn't deserve, because of whimsical and that is enough in my mind to call it uncompetitive. There are other reasons it is uncompetitive too.
  7. H2_

    Cheer Skill Discussion!

    @gintrax You were correct to say that there is no counterplay to Whimsical, but only when you separate the concerns of counterplay. There is no proactive way to counterplay Whimsical to mitigate it's effects unlike everything else in Pokkén. There is only reactive counterplay to whimsical. Every other effect or option in Pokkén can be properly mitigated in some form proactively, whether it be spacing, pressure, options, strategy, etc... Whimsical is the only effect in the game that you can't proactively counterplay, because it's random and uninfluenced by player interactions with no opportunity to put yourself in advantage or punish it. That said, in my opinion the argument for Whimsical being uncompetitive is very simple. The players lose control of setting the pace for strategy. You are letting the game environment set the pace of strategy in a non-fixed way. This means Whimsical adds PvE elements to a PvP scenario, and PvE is inherently uncompetitive. Since Whimsical can be dealt with in an isolated manner, banning it is not a slippery slope when the rule of thumb is ban uncompetitive elements if they're isolated.
  8. I enjoyed the event a lot. Unrelated to the tournament the only thing I'd say to improve on would be communicating food choices and pricing ahead of time. I would love to see this event again. From my perspective everything ran great. There's definitely small things that can always be done to make it better, but honestly the experience overall was so good I'm having trouble coming up with areas to improve. Small things like recording setups for offstream matches, maybe some kind of stat system for commentators to provide info from, and things like that.
  9. My feedback http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqa0nk
  10. I'm with Swillo on a lot of this. I think 3v3 should be standard. BUT I don't think it's something that can be decided so easily in a forum. IMO we should be having events with BOTH formats for a while and see if 3v3 takes off. Obviously 1v1 will have better numbers initially, but I'm of the opinion that any pot bonuses we do should be split equally between the game modes for at least 6 months so we can assess which mode to adopt perminently. All that said I fully expect 3v3 to end up being the preferred mode if we adhere to treating both 1v1 and 3v3 equally. I can only hope that TPCi will have ranked online for both modes otherwise we're doomed to have a preference for 1v1.
  11. Hey Fumu, thanks for TOing at DreamHack. The event ran pretty well. Though we need to figure something out about multi-game players. Not sure if we need to communicate with TOs from other games or what.
  12. H2_

    Guard Breaks in Pokkén Tournament

    Pretty all 8X's guard break for unscaled damage, though I haven't verified every single one.
  13. H2_

    Why Pokkén needs to be on the Switch

    I'm game for a switch port, I just don't expect to see it until winter 2017 at the earliest. They need to solve for wireless LAN and change other things since they can't do 2 player on 1 console. There's also the availability issue right now. Switches are less available than Wii Us currently. This will last for a month or two, maybe longer. It's much more likely to get 1.5 update which is compatible with the current game release than it is to get a port currently. After we get version parity, then we should definitely push for a port, because the Wii U isn't made anymore and you can only get them used. We gotta go one step at a time I think. Version parity first, then a console that isn't unavailable. Until you start seeing switches on shelves no reason to push for a port in my opinion.
  14. Hi All, As some of us have known for a while Gardevoir can do a fake counter while landing from a jump, float, or teleport. Activating jCA at the right time while landing will cause this. The window for the input of the tech is very small, maybe 2 frames at most. The benefit of a fake counter is that you get a couple frames of armor while landing, but they're not so active they'll always help, you trigger the counter visual, and you get to act immediately upon landing. Landing with a fake counter puts even more option ambiguity into the mind of our opponent's, because it looks like a counter is coming out, so they have to assess if it's an air counter, grounded counter, or a fake counter. It's impossible for them to assess the proper option and react appropriately if you execute a fake counter and immediately choose an option, so they'll have to try to make a read on you as to, which counter option you actually performed, then they have to also account for if you did a fake counter and make a read on what you are actually doing. Fake counters will be difficult to get a benefit out of off a normal jump, but if you are going to land without an input, there's no reason not to try one if you are good at executing them. As long as you can get either the timing for the fake counter or the timing where the counter input is eaten and no action comes out on landing you're good to always try. Teleports though are probably the best application of using a fake counter, especially a cross up teleport. Because it's one more thing your opponent has to process and you're low enough to the ground that it's very difficult to punish an empty teleport landing. It's also risky because you can dive kick or aerial counter. The training The training regimen I'd recommend for mastering the tech is to put a CPU in training mode on jump, keep your eyes fixed on the CPU while continuously doing cross up teleports and try to get the fake counter input each time you land. As long as you can get the input timing to where the counter input is completely eaten up and lost you're doing pretty well, because that won't hurt you in a match. If you get a grounded or aerial counter then that's not good, because that's a committal move you may not always want. The reason the CPU being on jump is important is because you need to be able to deal with the camera changing midmatch. See if you can get 5 landings in a row without doing an aerial or grounded counter, and have at least 3 of those landings be the fake counter input.
  15. The commentary schedule will be addressed. The initial schedule didn't work because of a misunderstand of how pools were being run, that said, pools running behind may not have allowed a schedule to have flowed properly anyways.
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