Drakonzeta

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About Drakonzeta

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  • Birthday July 24

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  • Main
    Darkrai
  1. Darkrai combos

    [A:4] refers to held dark pulse with four orbs
  2. Anti-character tricks

    With recording out, there's a lot of potential information and interactions going around that would be good to archive-hence the purpose of this thread. I'll be editing whatever I find into this post but if you have something you've found yourself feel free to post it here yourself! For starters, our options versus aqua jet on block; level 1, RS: Consistent option in backdash. If they surf, nasty plot immediately or 5x if they go for steel wing (arguably a read, however, backdash puts you out of steel wing range in my testing. Don't go for 5x without the read). If they rock smash, delay your nasty plot to catch the rock explosion. Cut and Waterfall are punishable by 5x on whiff, though for the former it's probably better to stick with 5y because of how quickly it recovers. level 2, RS: Gotta hold that mixup. Cut, waterfall, and surf lose to nasty plot, but plot loses to no followup, rock smash, or steel wing. Jumping beats everything but cut and waterfall. Backdash gets caught by everything but waterfall. You can duck waterfall. level 3, RS: Same as level 2 level 1, NM: Fdash lol level 2, NM: Fdash lol level 3, NM: Drill beats or clanks with every followup. However, if he blocks no followup you're in for an unusually large punishment. Fdash gets hit by surf and cut, bdash gets hit by rock smash level 1, field: sY and backdash both consistently avoid all followups. sY is a bit of a gamble-it can get you stronger punishes if he goes for rock smash or waterfall but doesn't get you punishes for surf or cut. Backdash more consistently gets punishes on all options (at least, if your reactions are on point). level 2, field: Like level 1 but backdash doesn't avoid mixups. sY is your safest bet here. Even if he doesn't followup and tries to grab, sY will avoid it-he might be able to delay the timing to catch you but mashing timing doesn't get it and sY cancels into hadoken which can presumably tech things. level 3, field: sY finally loses to something. Beats everything but cut. Cut loses to backdash, which itself gets hit by surf and rock smash. Plot beats cut, surf, and waterfall, loses to rocksmash, no followup grab
  3. Final boss was great! Pretty much the only things that went poorly were outside the event-such as the internet or the fairly disastrous after-dinner. I had a wonderful time overall, however, and there was so much good here! The tournament ran extremely smoothly, the matches were hype and there were a lot of setups available for friendlies. I'm looking forward to next time!
  4. Yes hello my twitter is twitter.com/drekenzetr not "charizard" How "charizard" got there I'll wonder eternally
  5. Darkrai combos

    So, this is going to be the thread where I record darkrai combos! At the time of writing, I've only comprehensively dug into field phase and regular stuff, but I will be updating this as I experiment more and things are discovered. For a working list of arcade combos, check out the pinned messages in the #shadow_realm channel of the darkrai discord! But, without further ado; Field Phase I'm going to be dividing the combos into three categories with two variants for each starter. The variants are for consuming orbs in the combo or not, while the categories are a bit more strategy-focused. The first (N-"Nightmare") will be the standard nightmare confirm-this is what you should be going for in most situations. The second(E-"Extend") will be a phase-preserving combo-what you go for if you want to keep them in phase and set up more. Usually, you want to do this on chars that can struggle with krai's field, especially with mirror such as Garchomp or Weavile. They also often do more damage than their nightmare counterparts, so you might want to go for them if you think it might kill. The final category(S-"Shift") will be for combos that just go for the shift-these are pretty much explicitly for burst mode krai's field, as you gain nightmare off any shift in burst mode. Also, as grab ender ends up being optimal in almost all S combos, these are also very good for wasting the clock in timeout scenarios. But, with that out of the way; bX O N bX jFYAA sY nX nA nX fA (143 damage) bX [A:4] nX fA (182 damage) (notes: this can be tough on small bodies, but it is doable) E bX b[X] (142 damage) bX [A:4] b[X] (202 damage) S bX j.FYAA sY nX nA grab (135 damage) bX [A:4] grab (198 damage) (notes: this is indeed less damage than the standard nightmare confirm. Just go for the N in this case, but for completion's sake this was the best I found) fY~bA O N fY bA bX nX fA (117 damage) fY bA bX [A:4] X fA (144 damage) E fY bA j.Y bX b[X] (117 damage) fY bA bX [A:4] b[X] (142 damage) S fY bA bX grab (125 damage) fY bA bX [A:4] grab (141 damage) (notes: somehow my combo damage recorded 168 for fY bA jFY [A:4] grab, but couldn't replicate. Guessing it was a fluke, but let me know if it's replicated) bY~bA O N bY bA sY nX nA nX fA (158 damage) bY bA nX [A:4] nX fA (186 damage) (notes: this combo is inconsistent with spacing. bY bA bX X fA does 154 more consistently) E bY bA bX b[X] (184 damage) bY bA bX [A:4] b[X] (220 damage) S bY bA bX grab (178 damage) bY bA bX [A:4] grab (218 damage) sY~bA O N sY bA bX nX fA (92 damage) sY bA [A:4] nX fA (114 damage) E sY bA bX b[X] (112 damage) sY bA bX [A:4] b[X] (133 damage) S sY bA BX grab (108 damage) sY bA bX [A:4] grab (132 damage) sY~nA O (Note: all of these require both you and the clone to be close-range in order to combo) N sY nA bX nX fA (114 damage) sY nA [A:4] bX nX fA (131 damage) E sY nA bX b[X] (119 damage) sY nA [A:4] bX b[X] (136 damage) S sY nA bX grab (118 damage) sY nA [A:4] bX grab (135 damage) [A:4] N [A:4] b[X] nX fA (186 damage) E [A:4] bX b[X] (198 damage) S [A:4] bX grab (194 damage) Regular State Duel In regular state duel, your objective is to either get to nightmare or shift out as soon as possible. There's no real reason to extend phase, and in RS darkrai does not have the kind of okizeme from a combo that he would have in field or nightmare to really justify not going for either of these as fast as possible. As such, this section will only have N and S sections. Also of note is that these are midscreen combos; they do not assume a wall at any point and in fact may be screwed up by wallsplatting mid-combo. But, without futher ado, 5X O N 5X4A 5X6A (109 damage) 5X[A:4] 5X6A (152 damage) S 5X4A 5X[A:2-3] 2YX (150-158 damage) 5X[A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (185 damage) Note: For the first combo, delaying the cancel of the 6A and especially the 4A is very important. Set the AI to block on reaction and practice this, as the delay is important to many combos that use 5X4A and 5X6A. 5Y O N 5YYY (60 damage) 5YY[A:4] 5X6A (156 damage) S 5YYA (102 damage, 6 PSP) 5YY[A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (179) 2Y O N N/A 2Y[A:4] 5X4A 5X6A (177 damage) S 2YX (84 damage, 3 PSP) 2Y[A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A 4YY:Y (200 damage) 8[X]/Crit 8X (damage calculated with 8[X]) O N 8[X] 2Y4A 5X6A (150 damage) 8[X] 2Y[A:4] 5X6A (177 damage) S 8[X] 2Y5A 5X[A:2-3] 2Y4A (6X) (181 damage) 8[X] 2Y[A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (198 damage) [A:4] N [A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A 5X6A (191 damage) S [A:4] 8[X] 2Y[A:1] 2YX (198 damage) 4A* O N 4A* 8[X] 2Y4A 5X6A (126 damage) 4A* [A:4] 8[X] 5X6A (151 damage) S 4A* 8[X] 2Y4A 5X 4A 6X (142 damage) 4A* [A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (158 damage) Note: walk forward slightly after 4A* in order to land the 8[X] ]Y[~4A O N Expl. 8[X] 2Y4A 5YYY (108 damage) Expl. [A:4] 5X6A (114 damage) S Expl. 8[X] 2Y4A 6X (109 damage) Expl. [A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (133 damage) 5/6/8X Rift O N Rift 5X4A 5X6A (138 damage) Rift 2Y[A:4] 5X6A (177 damage) S Rift 5X[A:1-3] 2Y4A 5X5A (149-173 damage) Rift 2Y[A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A (198 damage) j.Y Approximate damage due to variable number of hits O N j.YA:X 5X4A 5X6A (~101-115 damage) j.YA:Y 2Y[A:4] 5X6A (~135-149 damage) S j.YA:X 5X4A 5X4A 6X (~110-124 damage) j.YA:Y 2Y[A:4] 8[X] 2X (~156-170 damage) Note: recommended button to L-cancel with given. For the 2Y pulses I'd advise mashing the Y and then holding it once you see you got the L-cancel for the pulse. Anti-Air 8Y Orb combos omitted due to doing less damage N 8Y 8Y j.Y 6A (142 damage) or 8Y j.Y 5X6A (108 damage) S 8Y 6:Y 6:Y 2YX (191 damage) Note: This assumes a high hit of 8Y. 8Y juggles drop the opponent a bit further down on each rep. Learn heights and fit as many 8Ys in as you can. 8[Y] Approximate damage due to variable hits/orbs O N 8[Y] 5X[A:1-3] 2Y4A 5X6A (~115-123 damage) 8[Y] [A:4] 5X4A 5X6A (~130-156 damage) S 8[Y] 5X[A:1-3] 2Y4A 5X4A 6X (~130 damage) 8[Y] [A:4] 8[X] 2Y4A 5X5A (163 damage) 8Y Orb combos omitted due to doing less damage N 8Y j.Y 5YYY (116 damage. 5X6A can be done for 2 less damage and an orb. Does not work on Scizor, Gengar, Machamp, Mewtwo, Chandelure, Suicune, Charizard, or Garchomp) 8Y 6:Y j.Y 6A (136. Blaziken, Gardevoir, Braixen, Lucario) S 8Y 2YX 4YY:Y (157 damage), 6 PSP (Chandelure) 8Y 6:Y 2YX (166 damage, 9 PSP) (Sceptile, Machamp, Mewtwo, Charizard) 8Y 6:Y 4YY:Y (166 damage, 9 PSP) (Decidueye {I believe you can get 2YX but the timing is really tight}) 8Y 6:Y 6:Y 4YY:Y (194 damage) (Everyone else. 2YX may be substituted for 1 less damage and an orb except against Suicune) 6:Y 6:Y 2YX (126, 6 PSP) (Darkrai, Pikachu, Libre, Croagunk, Sceptile, Gengar, Decidueye, Machamp, Empoleon, Mewtwo, Chandelure, Weavile, Charizard, Garchomp, Shadow Mewtwo) 6:Y 6:Y 2YX (165, 9 PSP) (Blaziken, Lucario, Braixen) 6:Y 6:Y 6:Y 2YX (198) (Gardevoir, Suicune) 6:Y 2YX 4YY:Y (158, 9 PSP) (Scizor) (2YX can be done in place of 4YY:Y for 2 less damage and another orb) Crit CA CA* 6:Y 4YY:Y (158 damage, 9 PSP) (Darkrai, Blaziken, Pikachu, Lucario, Libre, Sceptile, Gengar, Braixen, Empoleon, Weavile. 2YX can be done for 1 less damage and an orb.) CA* 6:Y 6:Y 4YY:Y (180 damage) (Gardevoir, Suicune. 2YX can be done for 2 less damage and an orb on Gardevoir.) CA* 2YX 4YY:Y (146 damage) (Scizor, Gunk. A second 2YX can be done for 4 less damage and an orb on Scizor.) CA* 2YX (130 damage) (Decidueye, Machamp, Mewtwo, Chandelure, Charizard, Garchomp, Shadow Mewtwo. You have to wait slightly for Garchomp) [CA] [CA] 4YY:Y (139 damage) (Sceptile, Decidueye, Machamp, Empoleon, Mewtwo, Charizard, Shadow Mewtwo. 2YX can be done for 1 less damage and an orb) [CA] 2YX 4YY:Y (147 damage, 9 PSP) (Darkrai, Blaziken, Garchomp) [CA] 6:Y 2YX (162 damage, 9 PSP) (Pikachu, Lucario, Libre, Scizor, Gunk, Gengar, Braixen, Chandelure, Weavile. 2YX can be done for 2 less damage and an orb) [CA] 6:Y 6:Y 4YY:Y (178 damage) (Gardevoir, Suicune. 2YX can be done for 3 less damage and an orb on Gardevoir) 2/j.X Rift N Rift 8Y 8Y j.Y 6A (148 damage) S Rift 8Y 6:Y 6:Y 4YY:Y (181 damage) Special shoutouts to catfight for discovering the bX j.FYAA link, and to Genesis for helping with the char-specific links from grounded 8Y.
  6. Darkrai Information Sheet

    With the release of DX, many of us have finally gotten our hands on Darkrai and we can finally begin picking his numbers to pieces. To this end, I've begun collecting data on our lord of nightmares, found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GVJahD8qKJL1vDZ9VsYWov_FjrJTIPevlkHPbAf3s3E/edit?usp=sharing It's comment-only access to shield from trolls, but I'm reasonably confident in all the information I have recorded (save the entries marked with ?). I'll continue to update it as I discover things. If anyone has any additions, please comment in the doc or contact me. Special thanks to Specs for finding out the PSP/PLP stuff, and N8 and Rubs for helping with scaling on j.AX and 4yy:y
  7. The gist of sheer Darkness (Darkrai Guide)

    Izaleth, sadly, this guide is out of date and the move was changed from the arcade release. We still have mirror, but it's on a different, much slower and much less safe input in b[X] (back charged X) our current nY (neutral Y) is very good in its own right, however-having extremely high durability and damage for a field phase projectile, but the game has changed for him.
  8. Weavile Moveset Guide

    I can't seem to get rid of the taunt image at the bottom. Oh well, I'll keep it
  9. Weavile Moveset Guide

    Largely stolen from inspired by Thulius's excellent write-up for mewtwo, this will be a breakdown of all the pieces that make up Weavile. ------------------------------------ Universal Mechanics and Specials ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Duel Phase ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Field Phase ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Burst Mode ------------------------------------ Acknowledgments I'd like to thank Thulius for his Mewtwo version of this breakdown for inspiration, Raedis for looking this over and giving some helpful tips, and RickyTheThird for providing the images. Thank you for reading.
  10. Weavile vs CAs

    Yeah, pretty much.It hits low enough to crit you out of shwaa
  11. Weavile vs CAs

    2X doesn't work on burst mode blaziken. For that one, you have to night slash.
  12. Right, I've spent some time thinking about this and talking to a friend about the topic. We were both of the mind that 1v1 should remain tournament standard and I hope that I can adequately present my case here. First and foremost, I think it's important to remember that Pokkén is a small fighting game currently. We may certainly be expecting a surge of players with the advent of DX, but I think I should also point out that just this weekend we were celebrating breaking 10K viewers on the twitch stream of our largest tournament to date at the apex of the hype cycle to DX. We're certainly not extremely big right now. Why is this relevant? Two reasons. First of all, it means we cannot afford to split the community over this kind of rules debate. There are clearly split opinions on this topic, and it would be disastrous to leave, say Florida running 1v1s while Ohio runs 3v3s. We can't afford that kind of fragmentation, especially as it has been noted above that 3v3 would lead to a completely different metagame. We need to remain unified, hopefully in perpetuity or at the very least until we can deal with the kind of playerbase fragmentation that Smash does. And speaking of not doing things that smash does, this comes to the second reason why our size is relevant. We cannot expect to get away with things that much bigger games do. I cannot disagree more with dismissing the concerns about the larger timeframe 3v3 would take to run with "Smash gets away with it"-Smash is a titanic source of ad revenue and eyes, and as such can get away with a lot more than a smaller game like ourselves. The easier the game will be to run, the more events it can get into. We can't expect to force events to bend over backwards to fit expansive pools schedules like Smash can. With those two out of the way, I'd like to get into more personal/subjective arguments. The first is accessibility, which I know is a bit of a dirty term in the FGC at the moment, but it is truly one of Pokkén's greatest strengths. 3v3 is simply not as accessible, and frankly this has nothing to do with execution. I'm fairly certain if I put my mind to it I would have no problem being able to consistently do BnBs for every single character in the game with enough practice. The problem with 3v3 is simply in the number of matchups and knowledge it would require to compete at a high level. Pokkén is already a very matchup-based game, given how drastically different each character is, and tripling the number of matchups one has to learn naturally triples the amount of effort one has to put into the game to as they say, "git gud", which imo is a distinct hit to the game's accessibility. In Discord it least, it seemed part of the reasoning for wanting more complexity was as a way to prevent relative newcomers from defeating established veterans. But this again, ties back into the accessibility. Accessibility isn't about just being able to do combos without devoting your life to the game and sacrificing your firstborn to Harada, it's about not requiring two years of basically a graduate-tier level of study and practice to become competitive in the game. It's a testament to this accessibility that relative newcomers are able to stand against established players and do well, not through anti-skill design as SFV is purported to have but by understanding the game well enough to actually hold their own at that high a level. And well, if this still irks you, there are plenty of other FGs that are complex and hard and where you don't see people doing well until they've devoted years to learning the game. If that's the sort of thing you want, then maybe Pokkén isn't where you should be. A counterargument here I am willing to acknowledge is that maybe this accessibility translates not to an ease of learning but to a skill ceiling on top players. I have two rebuttals here. Firstly, if we acknowledge the skill ceiling here, I think it's only reasonable to acknowledge a skill ceiling in other FGs-the only difference being in how much effort it takes to reach that skill ceiling. This, imo, just ends up as a matter of preference. The other point is that the meta is still evolving. While I've seen cries for 3v3 as a way to freshen up a "stagnant" meta, just this weekend we had a "low tier" and underrepresented in results character breaking into the top 3 of the biggest Pokkén tournament to date (biggest in the sense of most important to community/stacked). I don't think the meta is stagnating, at least not in terms of tournament results, and the character diversity on any given Burnside graphic is a testament to that. And finally, the most subjective and most often cited argument in favor of 1v1. Solo mainers. Especially given how limited Pokkén's roster is, I don't think it's right to force people to pick three different characters to compete. Even disregarding the fact that games like Marvel and KoF are designed around team fights, a sheer roster size argument is what I'm going for here. Games designed around team fights have large rosters simply to accommodate for different tastes, so that everyone can find a team of two or three characters they like running. Pokkén's comparatively dinky 21-character roster cannot remotely claim to do the same. Speaking entirely from a personal level, there are maybe two characters in Pokkén I actually like enough to consider maining and that full may well reduce to one or even zero as I experiment around with their playstyles. And now, for a few more counterarguments I'm willing to cede. I'll agree that 3v3 may make the game hyper for spectators to watch which could bring in larger crowds, but I don't believe that can be guaranteed. I certainly will agree that being forced to learn more characters would help people become better at the game, but I feel like that should be the player's own choice to experiment rather than being a reality of the game's meta. Overall, I think I do concur with the course of action most of us seem to be advising. Run it as a side event for the time being, if it catches on competitively, maybe revisit this topic then, but until then I think 1v1 should definitely remain standard. My apologies if you feel I have misrepresented your view point at any time in this wall of text. I obviously care about this subject and as such would be happy to discuss it further.
  13. Weavile Support Guide

    A common question that a player new to Weavile may have when approaching the character is in what support to run. Worry not, hypothetical Sneasel, as this article will provide the collection of supports that are currently recommended to run in the 1.3 version of the game. The list may not be entirely appropriate-judging on what we can tell of Pokkén DX and arcade patchnotes, several supports on this list have been nerfed and several off this list have been buffed, but these are all solid choices. So with that out of the way, let us begin. Jirachi While Jirachi isn’t as much of a guarantee as Cresselia, it does allow a well-played Weavile to get burst twice in one round and to make one of those bursts absolutely overwhelming. Furthermore, Jirachi will presumably only get better for Weavile in 1.5, as with the double Signal Slash to charge support faster, the ability to get two bursts in a round becomes an even surer bet-and likely, both of those bursts will have the synergy buff. Eevee The attack buff from Eevee is great for contesting enemy bursts even in stickier situations where you haven’t the meter yourself, plus the health recovery can be a lifesaver. As far as we know, Eevee will be the same in DX so feel free to get used to it Frogadier Frogadier isn’t as common an option as many of the buffing or defensive supports on this list, but it is great for putting pressure on your opponent, stuffing their counters, and starting up combos. Umbreon Umbreon is a great “DP” assist, providing a great way to relieve pressure and get opponents off you. While the debuff isn’t great, the synergy drain certainly can be a lifesaver, and it complements Weavile’s natural meter denial quite nicely. Furthermore, Umbreon has some strong usage for wall combos. It does unfortunately have a longer charging time, but come DX this shouldn’t be a problem for Weavile. Espeon While Espeon is arguably inferior to Cresselia in the current patch of the game, with Cresselia being nerfed and Weavile’s ability to build meter increasing, Espeon may just replace it as the premier healing and debuff removal support. Togekiss As always, any healing is greatly appreciated, but the real reason you run Togekiss is for the speed buff. This amps Weavile’s already naturally high movement speed to hilarious levels, allowing you to easily play keepaway and apply tons of pressure in neutral. Cresselia One nerf down, one to come. On the current 1.3 patch of the game, Cresselia is a strong way to guarantee two bursts in a round while at the same time granting more healing. Sadly, Cresselia is being nerfed again in 1.5, with reduced synergy gain. Furthermore, Weavile’s newfound ability to quickly build support means Cresselia’s once per round restriction hurts a bit more. Its viability in DX largely depends on how much synergy is actually gives-if the level is at or below that of Jirachi, it will be highly not recommended. Reshiram Reshiram is an effective tool for getting opponents off of you, whether it lands or hits their shield. Sadly, like Cresselia, it will not be as useful come Pokkén DX, as a once per round call does not mesh well with the Double Synergy Slash. However, Reshiram is getting a damage buff to compensate, so we will see. Snivy Snivy is only situationally useful, but it provides some excellent pressure and defensive utility outside of the opponent’s grab range and can be used to make up for Weavile’s lackluster anti-air game. Magneton Dude. Memes
  14. Weavile Bread and Butters

    So, while the optimal combo list is still being worked on and continuously expanded as new combo routes are discovered and new situations for optimality are thought of, we thought it would be a good idea to take a step back and highlight some not necessarily optimal, but easy and effective combos off of Weavile's most common starters. Once you've got these down, we highly recommend learning more advanced combos, but these will serve you well as you're learning the fundamentals of the game. For the purposes of this article, we will be using numpad notation, which if you don't know, can be found here. Also, if you want to see any of these combos in motion, you can check out a video helpfully recorded by RickyTheThird here with timestamps for each combo. With that out of the way, let's get started 4/5YYY6X 6A/AAAA Despite the extensive-sounding name, this is far and away the most important combo to learn in Weavile's arsenal. Thankfully, it is also fairly easy. To translate for those not yet entirely familiar with numpad notation, this is three jabs into a forward x into either knock off or fury swipes, the former for meter steal, the latter for damage. Generally, you're going to want to go for the knock off ending unless you think you might get the kill with fury swipes. Since Weavile's jabs, particularly 4Y are some of his best tools, being able to confirm into a good amount of damage, meter steal, and oki off of them is a valuable skill. 4A 5YYY 6A/AAAA Another combo starter you'll see often is Night Slash, either raw or comboed into after a 5X. Technically, on the majority of the cast you can land the 5YYYX Knock Off variation but there's a few characters such as Chandelure on whom the combo doesn't work, so if you're not sure, this version is safer. Again, you can pick the Knock Off ender for meter steal or the Fury Swipes one for damage, though the same advice as before applies. 8Y j.A1BR 6A/5A8A[A] The notation may seem a bit confusing here, but have no fear; the first one is exactly the final dojo combo for Weavile. The second is a bit trickier, but is still simple enough to comprehend. Like before, this represents a meter steal versus damage choice, though unlike before it's not a Knock Off vs Fury Swipes choice. Still, 8Y is a powerful tool (that I personally need to use more) and being able to confirm off it is nice j.Y bY fA/j.Y fA AAAY And finally, for something in field. j.Y (the snowball) will be the most common thing you actually need to worry about combos for in field, so these are some solid options. Unlike the previous combos, the choice isn't between meter steal and damage, but rather between meter steal and positioning-these combos actually end up doing the same damage overall! Another note to keep in mind is that these are also good to do on an opponent frozen by your ice traps-if you have the time, that is. If you don't, a simple homing can do solid damage but if you can, use a restricted version of one of these-bY Knock Off, AAAY, whatever. And those are some basic bread and butters for Weavile. Most of them aren't optimal, but they're all easy to perform and effective. To all the new Weaviles incoming with Pokkén DX and all returning Weaviles that want to refresh their combo game, I hope you found this useful. Knock 'em dead out there, and remember to SHWAAAA
  15. Weavile Oki Guide

    I can't see fullcharge counter being that reliable unless a CADC followup is fast enough to punish wakeup grab, as it's extremely reactable (for reference, 6[x] is consistently reactable with backdash if your reactions are very good i.e. are Thulius). If your opponent has shown the ability to disrespect your 6[x] either with jump or backdash, 8y could be a solid mixup with grab to catch jumps or the like, but I think both of those still lose to a well-timed backdash. Though, perhaps you mixup that timing to catch backdashes.