Mister Wu

On Synergy Points (a.k.a. in-game ccs): what they are, how they are obtained or lost

6 posts in this topic

With the discovery of the attack table, we could finally perform tests on what I call the Synergy Points (SP) - the actual values used by the game to fill up the Synergy Gauge. What I write here is the results of those tests, if you want to have more insight on the process through which I could obtain the formula and the cc/SP conversion factor, just ask!

 

By the way, my tests which led to the formula, the conversion factor and the event SP, were performed on the Wii U Pokkén Tournament version 1.3, which is the same version from which the attack table was obtained. This was needed for the tests to be reliable.

 

PART 1: cc TO SP CONVERSION FACTOR

 

First of all, let's make the most important comparison, how many SP are 1 cc, the unit currently used by the community? Here is the answer:

 

1 cc = 4 SP

 

This makes Lucario's Synegy Gauge a 600 SP gauge, if you know this game enough you should know by now how this values is literally the standard :LucarioOld: number!

Now, thoguh, let's see how these SP are added or subtracted.

 

PART 2: SP DURING AN ATTACK

 

First of all, an important note on terminology: by attack I mean an entry in the attack table. This typically corresponds to a single hit, but in some cases (grabs, Burst Attacks) it corresponds to a sequence in which multiple hits are landed but the final damage is actually precoded.

 

When an attack happens, the game uses this formula to calculate the SP added (or subtracted, if the result is a negative number), regardless of whether you're the attacker or the attacked.

 

SP = ASP +  3 × (damage received)/10 + (damage dealt)/10

 

where ASP is the Attack's Synegy Points value in the attack table (column BP named ASP) if it's a positive value it is the amount of SP added to the attacker, if it is a negative value it is the amount of SP subtracted to the attackedIt is only applied if the move connects without being blocked (e.g. by a shield). damage received is the damage dealt to the fighter (recoil damage is counted as well here), while damage dealt is the damage dealt to the opponent, regardless of the type (so chip damage is still counted as damage dealt).

 

Plese note that when dividing by 10, fractional values are retained and not discarded through rounding.

 

PART 3: EVENTS AFFECTING SP

 

Along with the SPs added or subtracted through the previous formula, there are various events which add or subtract SP, let's have a look at those which were discovered by @Ouroboro and @Gintrax, among many (sorry, I don't have the credits for critical hits, Phase Shift and Field Phase attack, if you know who discovered those tell me and I'll add them to the list!):

 

  • Field Phase Attack: an attack in Field Phase gives 4 SP to the attacker even if it doesn't connect. Remember that the moves can have multiple attacks, Force Palm for example has 7 attacks, so performing it anywhere on the field will grant :LucarioOld: 28 SP even if the opponent is on the other part of the arena!
  • Critical Hit: a critical hit grants the attacker 30 SP
  • Phase Shift to Duel: a Phase Shift to Duel Phase grants the attacker 150 SP. That's a considerable amount, again indicating how Field Phase is the phase in which SP are quickly obtained!
  • Phase Shift to Field: a Phase Shift to Field Phase grants the attacker 60 SP. Duel Phase grants less SP compared to Field Phase, in general, and this is reflected also in the Phase Shift bonus.
  • Small (S) Synergy Gauge Orb: a Small Synergy Gauge Orb grants 20 SP. This is in contrast with what reported previously, I wonder if it was patched in the meanwhile
  • Large (L) Synergy Gauge Orb: a Large Synergy Gauge Orb grants 60 SP. Again, this value is greater than the previously reported one
  • Extra Large (XL) Synergy Gauge Orb: an Extra Large Synergy Gauge Orb fills completely even the Synergy Gauge of :MewtwoOld:, so it's impossible for me to tell how many SP it gives, besides it being a number equal or greater than 1600 SP!
  • Blue Armor: every attack that is blue armored (counterattack, stances) gives the blue armoring fighter 12 SP. Multi-attacks moves give a lot of SP when countered!
  • Anti-Grab Red Armor: red armoring a grab gives the red armoring fighter 30 SP. :CharizardOld:'s proud and mighty high stance pays off!
  • Counter Pierce: counter piercing grants the attacker 30 SP. :ChandelureOld: is now chuckling even more than before!
  • Guard Break: if the shield of the attacked is broken, they lose 150 SP. Be careful if your fighter has a 480 HP shield!

 

Plus, the charge of SP through stances is also considered a series of events happening at regular time intervals. The SP of each event and the frequency of said events are:

:PikachuOld:'s high stance: 5 SP every second

:LucarioOld:'s high stance: 2 SP every half second

:MewtwoOld:and:ShadowMewtwoOld:'s high stance: 10 SP every second

:GarchompOld:'s low stance: 12 SP every second

 

PART 4: SYNERGY GAUGE SIZE

 

Finally, thanks to @Burnside's beautiful graph and to the data about Aegislash and Blastoise on the Shoryuken Wiki, we can derive the actual size of the Synergy Gauge in SP:

 

400 SP

:WeavileOld::PikachuOld::PikachuLibre::ShadowMewtwoOld:

 

600 SP

:LucarioOld::CharizardOld::BraixenOld::GardevoirOld::Croagunk::Decidueye::BlazikenOld::Empoleon:

 

800 SP

:SceptileOld::DarkraiOld::ChandelureOld::MegaScizorOld::SuicuneOld::MachampOld::AegislashOld::BlastoiseOld:

 

1000 SP

:GarchompOld::GengarOld:

 

1600 SP

:MewtwoOld:

 

And that's pretty much it for now! If you have other questions, please ask!

Edited by Mister Wu
Added the charge of SP through stances

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In case you need an example on how to use these numbers, let's study two cases of a match between :WeavileOld:and :CharizardOld:

CASE 1: :WeavileOld:fA SUCCESSFULLY LANDED IN FIELD PHASE

In this case, :WeavileOld:manages to hit:CharizardOld:in Field Phase with fA, Knock Off.

 

Said move is consists in two attacks, atk_461_FP_PK_hatakiotosu1 and atk_461_FP_PK_hatakiotosu2, so we'll have to see the contribution of each.

 

First attack

 

The first attack, atk_461_FP_PK_hatakiotosu1, deals 40 damage and has an ASP of 12. At this point, we can see the SP given to each fighter:

 

:WeavileOld:SP = ASP + (damage dealt)/10 = 12 + 40/10 = 12 + 4 =16

:CharizardOld:SP = 3 × (damage received)/10 = 3 × 40/10 = 3 × 4 = 12

Furthermore, sicne this attack is performed in Field Phase, :WeavileOld:further gains 4 SP, so the contribution of this attack is 20 SP gained by :WeavileOld:and 12 SP gained by :CharizardOld: 

Second Attack

 

The second attack, atk_461_FP_PK_hatakiotosu2, deals 40 damage as well, has an ASP of -50 and also triggers Phase Shift to Duel Phase (FP Shift value of 33). The SP given to each fighter are:

 

:WeavileOld:SP = (damage dealt)/10 = 40/10 = 4

 

:CharizardOld:SP = ASP + 3 × (damage received)/10 = -50 3 × 40/10 = - 50 +  3 × 4 = - 50 + 12 = -38

This attack is performed in Field Phase as well, so :WeavileOld: gains 4 SP, plus the Phase Shift to Duel Phase also grants :WeavileOld: 150 SP. The contribution of this second attack is therefore 158 SP gained by :WeavileOld: and 38 SP lost by :CharizardOld:

 

Outcome of the move

 

The final outcome of the move in terms of SP is

 

:WeavileOld:SP = 20 + 158 = 178

:CharizardOld:SP = 12 - 38 = -26

So, at the end of this move, :CharizardOld: loses 26 SP while :WeavileOld: gains a whopping amount of 178 SP, which is almost half the SP of his Synergy Gauge!

Knock Off in Field Phase is an amazing move when it comes to SP management!

 

 

 

 

CASE 2: :CharizardOld:fsA SHIELDED IN DUEL PHASE

In this case, we have :CharizardOld:'s Flying Stance A move, Flare Blitz, which is successfully shielded in Duel Phase by :WeavileOld:.

This move consists in six attacks, an initial atk_006_DP_fly_PK_flaredrive1 repeated five times and a final atk_006_DP_fly_PK_flaredrive2 which is landed as final attack and adds to the scaling of the following attacks. Plus, since this moves also deals recoil damage to :CharizardOld:, we'll need to consider recoil damage as an additional attack of :CharizardOld:dealt to himself.

Recoil Damage

This part is pretty simple to calculate, :CharizardOld:fsA deals 50 recoil damage, so the SP gained are:

:CharizardOld:SP = 3 × (damage received)/10 = 3 × 50/10 = 3 × 5 = 15

 

Actual attacks

 

The 6 attacks of the move, the five atk_006_DP_fly_PK_flaredrive1 and the final atk_006_DP_fly_PK_flaredrive2, all deal the same chip damage of 5, so we just need to calculate the contribution of one hit. Said contribution is:

 

:CharizardOld:SP = (damage dealt)/10 = 5/10 = 0.5

:WeavileOld:SP = 3 × (damage received)/10 = 3 × 5/10 = 3 × 0.5 = 1.5

So, the total contribution of each of the 6 attacks of this move is 0.5 SP gained by :CharizardOld:and 1.5 SP gained by :WeavileOld:. This tells us a very important thing: shielded attacks heavily favors the attacked by giving them 3 times the SP unless their shield is broken.

 

Outcome of the move

 

At this point, we can calculate the outcome of the move in terms of SP:

 

:CharizardOld:SP = 15 + 6 × 0.5 = 15 × 3 = 18

:WeavileOld:SP = 6 × 1.5 = 9

At the end of the day, :CharizardOld:gains double the amount of SP that :WeavileOld:gains, i.e. 18 SP versus 9 SP, but only because of the recoil damage. If it wasn't for said damage, :WeavileOld: would have gained triple the amount of SP gained by:CharizardOld:, i.e. 9 versus 3. This is another reason why :ShadowMewtwoOld:can quickly gain SP!

Edited by Mister Wu
fixed spacing, better formatting

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What about when you get hit while counter attacking?

 

on the DX version, if Mewtwo does bY XX in field and Weavile counters it, she gets full meter (if she landed the counter attack, she still gets about %40 if she CADCs out of it).

I think they originally did this because they wanted to reward players that CADC through projectiles instead of shielding so there might be a difference when you CA attacks and CA projectiles (hence why Weavile gets lots of synergy from bY since it's a projectile).

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Hey, if you call him she he won't be very happy, and I wouldn't make a Weavile unhappy...

 

Thanks for asking!

 

Now that you talk about it, I have a lot of cases yet to test:

  • projectiles and physical attacks CAs in both Duel and Field Phase
  • projectiles and physical attacks blue armor high stancing
  • projectiles and physical attacks red armor high stancing
  • grabs red armor high stancing
  • red armor? Is :ChandelureOld:'s one the same of :MewtwoOld:?

I should also test the Counter Pierce event, by the way, which I verified gives SP to the attacker.

 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this round of tests this week, starting from the next I'l ltry to see what I can test and add the results on the main post.

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i thought i edited the (she) part out.

try chandelure's 5A while the opponent is in synergy burst because burst armor eats the 5A but still counter breaks which looks stupid.

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In the end, it was simpler than expected: blue armoring is an event, and it gives 12 SP, regardless of the phase and regardless of whether the blue armor comes from a counter attack or a stance. Since said event happens when each attack is blue armored, multi-attacks moves give a lot of SP! Oddly, red armoring attacks is an event that doesn't give any SP, you just get the SP from the damage taken, as tested with :CharizardOld: (who gets an interesting SP bonus when he manages to red armor grabs, on the other hand). The other events now have been added as well.

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